Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby pensum » Fri May 09, 2014 1:53 pm

The Olds aren't the only ones to write a book on togal and make it available, there is also this bizarre shoddy contribution: http://www.amazon.ca/Vajrasattva-Secret-Wisdoms-Trekcho-Togal/dp/1491863684/. Rife with typos and grammatically bizarre phrasing, and not to be trusted in the least. Here's a sample copied exactly as it appears in the Amazon preview:

Rgyun-gyi ting-nge-'dzin, the same state in Tibetan definition is such. Rgyun-gyi has in depth meaning. Self existing pristine Rigpa. Self arising, self ignited, self originated openness of ecstatic Rigpa. Self, here is not the composite of impermanent elements. It is one's own, without grasping, if anything, own power, own guidance.


Anybody know anything about the apparently illiterate author, Richard Chambers Prescott?
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 09, 2014 2:13 pm

pensum wrote:The Olds aren't the only ones to write a book on togal and make it available, there is also this bizarre shoddy contribution: http://www.amazon.ca/Vajrasattva-Secret-Wisdoms-Trekcho-Togal/dp/1491863684/. Rife with typos and grammatically bizarre phrasing, and not to be trusted in the least. Here's a sample copied exactly as it appears in the Amazon preview:

Rgyun-gyi ting-nge-'dzin, the same state in Tibetan definition is such. Rgyun-gyi has in depth meaning. Self existing pristine Rigpa. Self arising, self ignited, self originated openness of ecstatic Rigpa. Self, here is not the composite of impermanent elements. It is one's own, without grasping, if anything, own power, own guidance.


Anybody know anything about the apparently illiterate author, Richard Chambers Prescott?


He definitely has a bone to pick with the Nyingmapas.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Greg » Fri May 09, 2014 4:27 pm

Andrew108 wrote:They have been practicing in semi-isolated retreat for 9 years. A large part of that time they say was spent practicing Thögal. They should be applauded for their efforts. They may have some useful insights. To judge if they have realization or not is actually very easy. Contact them and see if they are conditioned. If they do not display any behaviour that is conditioned by kleshas then one can assume that the practice has worked.


In other words, we may find that the Oldsmobile is in fact the highest vehicle.

Image
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby ngodrup » Fri May 09, 2014 4:31 pm

It is a very special vehicle-- unique even.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby lelopa » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:15 pm

Adamantine wrote:I don't believe there is any benefit to promoting awareness about this book, even to inspire criticism. The protectors are entrusted with dealing with this kind of thing, it's sort of beyond most of our capacity and engaging with it will likely just cause us problems. . .
...............



" In Memory of Rachel Dutton Olds

April 25, 1947 - July 11, 2014"
I do not have any solutions - but i admire the problems!
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby smcj » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:31 pm

In Memory of Rachel Dutton Olds

April 25, 1947 - July 11, 2014


Well, at least now she gets to see how authentic her realization actually was. All admirers & critics, issues & dramas, hopes & dreams, fears & worldly protections and such mean nothing now. (And, quite frankly, such can also be said of her meditation too if reincarnation is indeed a fantasy.) So all I can say is; good luck to her on her journey! :namaste:
Last edited by smcj on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:13 pm, edited 9 times in total.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:37 pm

I pray she finds the nirmanakaya realm.

Their book will not instruct anyone to attain liberation.

It's sad that a life was spent pursuing this and simply failed.

It makes me really really sad to see this happen.

Never let yourself fall away from the grace of the guru.

Never assume oneself is free from the need to be blessed by the guru.

Never allow yourself to become angry and distant when the guru rebukes you.

Don't mold upadesha teachings into one's own imaginary world.

That is the path to hell.
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby alpha » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:45 pm

The woman has died.
You cant criticize someone just because they've died.
AOM
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby dzogchungpa » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:48 pm

ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Jikan » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:59 pm

lelopa wrote:" In Memory of Rachel Dutton Olds

April 25, 1947 - July 11, 2014"


May she achieve Buddhahood in the space between birth and death. May she never be separated from the 3 Jewels.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:32 pm

alpha wrote:The woman has died.
You cant criticize someone just because they've died.


You got that backwards. You can't venerate someone just because they died. Everyone dies. The problem is the litter preceding the wake.

Here is one bit from their books: "Thogal visions are always the same for everyone."
This contradicts what all the real Dzogchen masters actually say.

Why does this matter? Because it will completely ruin you.

She's going to go into the bardo thinking she's supposed to see "essence... nothing, not nothing" When she sees the deities, she'll freak out and be in hell.

I'm criticizing because her name came up because she died. I'm just happy I managed to meet real masters or these bozos would have definitely screwed up my path.

I'm very sorry to say there are people who's paths have been destroyed by their ideas.
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby alpha » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:44 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
alpha wrote:The woman has died.
You cant criticize someone just because they've died.


You got that backwards. You can't venerate someone just because they died. Everyone dies. The problem is the litter preceding the wake.

Here is one bit from their books: "Thogal visions are always the same for everyone."
This contradicts what all the real Dzogchen masters actually say.

Why does this matter? Because it will completely ruin you.

She's going to go into the bardo thinking she's supposed to see "essence... nothing, not nothing" When she sees the deities, she'll freak out and be in hell.

I'm criticizing because her name came up because she died. I'm just happy I managed to meet real masters or these bozos would have definitely screwed up my path.

I'm very sorry to say there are people who's paths have been destroyed by their ideas.



Can you provide some evidence that there are people whose paths were destroyed by them ?
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby asunthatneversets » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:58 pm

alpha wrote:Can you provide some evidence that there are people whose paths were destroyed by them ?

It can happen in general, which is of course why you see statements from Padmasambhava such as this:

Having an unexamined teacher is like jumping into an abyss;
Having an unexamined student is like drinking poison.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:53 pm

alpha wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
alpha wrote:The woman has died.
You cant criticize someone just because they've died.


You got that backwards. You can't venerate someone just because they died. Everyone dies. The problem is the litter preceding the wake.

Here is one bit from their books: "Thogal visions are always the same for everyone."
This contradicts what all the real Dzogchen masters actually say.

Why does this matter? Because it will completely ruin you.

She's going to go into the bardo thinking she's supposed to see "essence... nothing, not nothing" When she sees the deities, she'll freak out and be in hell.

I'm criticizing because her name came up because she died. I'm just happy I managed to meet real masters or these bozos would have definitely screwed up my path.

I'm very sorry to say there are people who's paths have been destroyed by their ideas.



Can you provide some evidence that there are people whose paths were destroyed by them ?


Here we go, "evidence." Their teachings contradict the words of Buddha. That's all the "evidence" I need.
Thank you for parking my Trojan Horse in your city.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:16 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:She's going to go into the bardo thinking she's supposed to see "essence... nothing, not nothing" When she sees the deities, she'll freak out and be in hell.


I don't think so. She understood what chos nyid mngon gsum was well enough, this alone is enough to prevent rebirth in lower realms forever.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby dzogchungpa » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:She understood what chos nyid mngon gsum was well enough...

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that?
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:23 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:She understood what chos nyid mngon gsum was well enough...

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that?


Because they received the teachings, and knew what they meant.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:21 am

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:She's going to go into the bardo thinking she's supposed to see "essence... nothing, not nothing" When she sees the deities, she'll freak out and be in hell.


I don't think so. She understood what chos nyid mngon gsum was well enough, this alone is enough to prevent rebirth in lower realms forever.


That might be the case for someone who doesn't misrepresent dharma and teach a bastardized path. Chos nyid mngon gsum is only path of application. Even a first bhumi bodhisattva can be reborn in hell, like when The Bodhisattva killed the boatman. And that was considered a righteous killing.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Crazywisdom » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:23 am

Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:She understood what chos nyid mngon gsum was well enough...

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that?


Because they received the teachings, and knew what they meant.


No. They did not. They completely misunderstood the teachings. They might have seen bindus but they did not understand the part about not conceptualizing them and not concretizing or universalizing them.
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Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:32 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:She's going to go into the bardo thinking she's supposed to see "essence... nothing, not nothing" When she sees the deities, she'll freak out and be in hell.


I don't think so. She understood what chos nyid mngon gsum was well enough, this alone is enough to prevent rebirth in lower realms forever.


That might be the case for someone who doesn't misrepresent dharma and teach a bastardized path. Chos nyid mngon gsum is only path of application. Even a first bhumi bodhisattva can be reborn in hell, like when The Bodhisattva killed the boatman. And that was considered a righteous killing.


As ChNN states, again and again, whoever has the experience of chos nyid mngon gsum will never take rebirth in lower realms again, cf. sgra thal gyur tantra.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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