...bearing in mind that mythological stories are never properly investigated and taken for granted, based on the authority of the storyteller.
smcj wrote:Well sure, the next time an enlightened master feels like passing away in a laboratory there will be plenty of evidence. However I'm not holding my breath....bearing in mind that mythological stories are never properly investigated and taken for granted, based on the authority of the storyteller.
The same would be true if it happened in a lab. You just want a storyteller with a different kind of authority!
(formatting mine)by reliable persons with established and proven credibility in the scientific community would be quite satisfactory.
Most recently when Nelson Mandela died, rainbows appeared over his bodies resting place. Its interesting because he is considered a Bodhisattva by many and was close to the Dalai Lama.
Im sure government agencies have well documented info on it. I wonder what they think of it, if they do know its real...
In general if you don't believe in it you should keep that lack of belief to yourself so that you dont harm the faith of others.
At the same time, even if you do believe in it, clinging to it as an idea or goal will actually prevent such a manifestation from happening since one must learn to be beyond fear of not attaining and hope of attaining realization in order to achieve the ultimate transformation.
The main goal is to simply recognize and then remain in the true nature of mind. From that all accomplishment will come forth naturally. Thats how you attain the deathless state, the citadel of unchanging awareness. That is how you are of most benefit to yourself and others. If there is a rainbow body to be attained, thats how it will be attained.
smcj wrote:In order for you to gain conviction, some master that was nearing death would have to, in effect, announce his level of realization and intent to die soon. That would be seen an supremely arrogant, and is completely frowned upon. Then he'd have to actually go to wherever a credentialed researcher (with what kind of credentials?) would have the facility to make measurements of the process and die there. That's not likely to happen anytime soon.
However the 16th Karmapa did die in a Chicago hospital, and the hospital was persuaded to not disturb the body for 3 days because they showed the staff that the heart center was still warm. That's not rainbow body, just a yogi's normal death process. Close enough?
I base nothing on any kind of belief system and in this case I wish to demand a factual observation.
smcj wrote:Funny, I just realized Guty has the exact same attitude towards 'miraculous' occurrences as I do to alien spacecraft. The two threads were next to each other when I hit 'see my posts'. That's what made me think of it.
The difference is that somebody can actually practice Dharma with an open mind and get results. They don't have to buy into an idea, just be open to it. No conclusion need be reached. One of the signs of a successful NgonDro practice is beginning to see karma at work, on a crude level of course. And in terms of keeping an open mind, it is sort of axiomatic that any conclusions you make are going to be invalidated if you go far enough along the Dharma path. So an open mind keeps you going. Conclusions can become a boat anchor, unless they are seen as temporary stopping places and subject to revision.
With spaceships there's nothing to do, but wait for one to land. And then what? Maybe something good. Maybe something bad. Maybe a bit of both. And what if they keep dancing around the edges for another century or two before they land, that is if they exist at all? We will all be dead by then. So fixating on U.F.O.s is a waste of emotional investment and time. Dharma is not.
Guty wrote:smcj wrote: Even Buddha Sakyamuni demands from disciples of dharma to investigate on their own and not to take things for granted because some authority say so, even if that authority was himself Tathagata. Not without verification, though.
On Tuesday 31st March, 1998, our cherished Umdze (Chant Leader), Lama Putse, died suddenly of a chronic respiratory ailment. Despite poor health, Lama Putse remained active and was an extremely valuable member of our monastery. Apart from his formal distinction as senior chant-leader during pujas, Lama Putse was expert in all aspects of ritual and was uniquely qualified to proofread and correct the most profound Buddhist scriptural texts and treatises.
To our amazement, Lama Putse remained for 11 days in the after-death meditative state of ‘tuk-dam’. During that time, there were none of the usual signs of the decay after death. His body remained fresh and completely odor-free, the flesh soft and supple with no sign of rigor mortis. His face was composed and life-like.
On the evening of 8th April, at our request, Dr. David R. Shlim, respected chief physician of CIWEC Clinic, came to the monastery to view Lama Putse. Dr. Shlim was astonished at the extraordinary condition of the body and remarked that he could think of no explanation, from either a medical or scientific standpoint, for such an occurrence. On 9th April, Dr. Prativa Pandey, also a senior physician of CIWEC Clinic, examined the body declaring that, after death, Lama Putse appeared to be demonstrating very rare supramundane qualities that defied scientific explanation.
During the 11 days of ‘tuk-dam’, several monks remained in Lama Putse’s room to perform puja 24-hours a day. The room had a very mild pleasant fragrance and a noticeable freshness. Two times the monastery officials had to cancel tentative plans for cremation because Lama Putse was still in meditation and, thus, connected with the body.
Lama Putse concluded his ‘tuk-dam’ meditation on Saturday, 11th April. When ‘tuk-dam’ is finished, the person’s mind deliberately separates from the physical body and the body begins to decompose rapidly. Cremation took place on Wednesday morning, 15th April, 1998, and was presided over by Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche, Chokling Rinpoche, and Tsangsar Tulku.
Nighthawk wrote:Don't think you'll ever come across any solid evidence. It's all a matter of blind faith.
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