Contradictory Bardo teachings within same tradition

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Re: Contradictory Bardo teachings within same tradition

Postby CapNCrunch » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:56 pm

There is no contradiction IMO. Our real nature of clear light with the sound, light & rays appear to each of us in the Choyid bardo. With preparation and practice, or with the right circumstances & method, we also have the opportunity to experience them fully while still alive.

However, without some method and practice that allows us to recognize the display of the basis as our own display, it's not very probable that we'll recognize either the clear light, or, the appearance of deities. Thus, this bardo can pass us by in a flash, or seemingly altogether - Much as the clear light experience available right after our consciousness reverts to the all-ground when falling asleep can pass us by each night.

I've heard it said that for the unprepared, the manifestation of the base can be a brief terrifying flash of unbearable sound, light & rays, or pass un-noticed altogether.

If that happens then we first become aware when vision is more completely developed and concertized in the sidpa bardo.
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Re: Contradictory Bardo teachings within same tradition

Postby hop.pala » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:38 am

If that happens then we first become aware when vision is more completely developed and concertized in the sidpa bardo.


1)When we sleep,and wake up,in this process the consciousness go through the clear light,light and ray(chonyid),awakened consciousness(sidpai).
Regarding on perception it is maybe right what you say,because in death it is the same,clear light,light and ray(chonyid),awakened consciousness(sidpai).
2)But in tibetan book of the dead 7. and 8. day chonyid,regarding now" not only" on the perception,he is" really" in the chonyid.The mind go up on 7. day now,because hier peacefull perception,by 8. day the mind go down because wrathfull perception.Not calendar days.The explanation:by 7. and 8. day find the description of tickles,so this is chonyid bardo.(i think chonyid is until the mind go up,and by 8. day go down)
Now i write no more,only say tha the book of the dead is multiply combined as explanation.
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Re: Contradictory Bardo teachings within same tradition

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:46 am

hop.pala your post was very confusing and i didnt really understand anything you said.


i looked a little bit into some teachings on bardo.

and at the bardo of the clear light of death enlightenment or dharmakaya liberation is possible
in the display of the shitro sambhogakaya liberation is possible if you have well aquainted yourself with the deity and can experience your own nature as the deity in meditation

and in the bardo of becoming if you can just remember to pray to amitabha or your lama or enlightened being preferably amitabha if you want to go to dewachen, nirmanakaya liberation takes place since the mind is weightless and travels anywhere that the mind clings to.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Contradictory Bardo teachings within same tradition

Postby hop.pala » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:59 pm

Ok i think that the first 2 weeks from tibetan book of the dead last:
1)some moment-consciousness lost and awake(3,5 day).-Awakenig from sleep or from dead is a kind of manifestation or "reinkarnation".(figuratively)
2)so circa 49 day-dual consciousness.-reinkarnation( figuratively and not figuratively)
3) hundreds year-lost astral,mental body-devanchan-build new mental and astral body.And reinkarnation(not figuratively-in body)
I belive in the three meaning.
Otherwise pretty much agree what you wrote because it is not against what i wrote.I belive in same time in theosophical interpretation,and because that is very clear sholud fit together.( see this: "3)" .So i think the first 2 weeks and the 49 day is multiple complex as explanation.
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Re: Contradictory Bardo teachings within same tradition

Postby nyamssnanggong'phel » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:23 pm

Sherlock wrote:ChNN also says that they only appear for those with the relevant empowerments (shitro, guhyagarbha etc).


He says in atleast 2 books, you need the "the clear appearance of the deity" during practice.
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