Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist books?

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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Dronma » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:04 am

I am still having all my books here, not only books of Tibetan Buddhism (including Dzogchen), but also books of other philosophies, religions, literature, art etc.
I like all of them.
Once, many years ago, I was visiting one of my Tibetan Dzogchen teachers while I was holding in my hands a few new books I had just bought. He asked me what were those books about. I replied that they were books about psychology. I remember him to move his head affirmatively and saying seriously: "A! Books of wisdom!"
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:26 am

I reckon if you could sell your dualising mind that it would be infinitely more helpful for your pursuit! :smile:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:45 am

Sherab Dorje wrote:I reckon if you could sell your dualising mind that it would be infinitely more helpful for your pursuit! :smile:


Or change my name and avatar! :D
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:53 am

Nah... I can't see how that would help you realise Dzogchen. Hasn't helped me.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:56 am

Sherab Dorje wrote:Nah... I can't see how that would help you realise Dzogchen. hasn't helped me.


Oh, I was thinking about the other pursuit of posting something and not have to reverse engineer the topic all the time.
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:05 am

I have no idea what you are talking about. I thought we were talking about how selling your books will help you focus on your pursuit of realising Dzogchen (here I am talking about the state of "mind" and not the view, though I still don't really know exactly which you are talking about, since you didn't answer my original question to you).

If it was an affirmation of your decision you wanted, you got that from "Paul". I tend to believe that it won't make an iota of a difference to your realisation of Dzogchen (and here I am talking about the state of "mind", not the view) whether you keep them, sell them, burn them, buy more of them, etc... I think this also applies to the situation where you are talking about the view (dzogchen). Now if the issue is about making more space on your bookshelf, then obviously getting rid of the books is a good idea.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:06 am

Talking about this:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
padma norbu wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:Why would you consider Buddhist texts as containing "non-Dzogchen" ideas? I mean, is there anything that is not Dzogchen given that it all arises from Dharmakaya Samantabhadra?


For the same reason books about theraveda, mahayana and vajrayana are not labeled as "dzogchen" by their authors and book publishers.
Are we talking about dzogchen or Dzogchen? Are we talking about the view, or the nature of mind?
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:14 am

To which you answered this:
You're persistent, I'll give you that much.
Which is hardly what counts to my pea brained mind as a clarification of the topic. You have to consider that some of us are thick.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:20 am

Sherab Dorje wrote:To which you answered this:
You're persistent, I'll give you that much.
Which is hardly what counts to my pea brained mind as a clarification of the topic. You have to consider that some of us are thick.

I was referring to the fact that I already answered your question sufficiently enough to justify the words I chose which you obviously want to pick apart. As always, great talking to you, Greg.
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Simon E. » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:08 pm

padma norbu wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:Nah... I can't see how that would help you realise Dzogchen. hasn't helped me.


Oh, I was thinking about the other pursuit of posting something and not have to reverse engineer the topic all the time.


Anyway Padma Norbu..a good idea in my opinion. I did it too. In my case I gave the superceded books to a Dharma Centre.
Last edited by Jikan on Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: pulled out an ad-hom against Sherab Dorje
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:52 pm

Simon E. wrote:
padma norbu wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:Nah... I can't see how that would help you realise Dzogchen. hasn't helped me.


Oh, I was thinking about the other pursuit of posting something and not have to reverse engineer the topic all the time.


Anyway Padma Norbu..a good idea in my opinion. I did it too. In my case I gave the superceded books to a Dharma Centre.


Thanks, Simon. It seems kind of obvious to me now... it's kind of like what Namkhai Norbu says about self-control and vows, which I will poorly paraphrase here: "if you have trouble with self-control in some area of life, then you can take a vow."

Too much choice often actually backfires and results in no choice at all. This is common marketing knowledge you can see in Apple's product line: they have very few choices, sort of like a "small, medium and large" of their main products. All you have to decide, really, is how much money you can spend and then your choice is made. Compared to the Dell product line where you have to decide if you want a "home" or "office" computer and then a dozen or more options after that, Apple's sales technique is a very smooth transition to the cash register, making it very easy to choose a purchase; definitely a big part of Apple's success. This is quite an accidental discovery, but now it has become obvious that the excess knowledge staring at my from my bookshelf results in a big old mental block and confusion, getting rid of the extra choices is like taking a vow to focus only on dzogchen practices and texts.
Last edited by Jikan on Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed an ad-hom in a quoted post
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby WeiHan » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:06 pm

To me, the more important question maybe whether you are blaming those books now or whether it is just interdependent origination that it just so happen that you are not in the right causes and conditions to put those knowledge into good use. Or maybe I am wrong.
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:19 pm

WeiHan wrote:To me, the more important question maybe whether you are blaming those books now or whether it is just interdependent origination that it just so happen that you are not in the right causes and conditions to put those knowledge into good use. Or maybe I am wrong.


Why would I be blaming the books? Everything I've said clearly shows the problem is in my own head. And, yes, of course I am not in the right causes and conditions. Probably if I had no other responsibilities, I could study enough to make sense of it all. They're all great books, that's part of my problem. :smile:
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby JKhedrup » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:50 pm

I guess the question becomes, will you maybe want to refer to the books again later on?

Many practitioners experience different periods in their spiritual lives. Sometimes studying the scriptures a great deal, then going for a "experiential" approach. Or putting lots of effort into sadhana practice and then focusing on Dzogchen. Doing prostrations and then delving into Middle Way Philosophy.

As we change and evolve in our practice I think we will find we need to focus on different things at different times. Even just reading people's comments on message boards such as these shows the changes people can go through. From scrutinizing study of the scriptures and debate on difficult points, to the nature of the mind and letting go of concepts. At the centres too- I see people who come to Gelugpa from Dzogchen, go to Dzogchen from Gelugpa, Kagyu to Theravada and everything in between.

Since I don't know you of course I am not commenting on your personal situation- but just in a general way of what I observe in practitioners in the West. In Tibet people were often "born into" the system. If their uncle was a Dzogchen master they would study that system, if he was a Gelug philosopher they would go to one of the monastic universities. It is a very different set of circumstances for people like us and I wonder if we are not even more fortunate from the perspective of having exposure to diverse approaches.
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby padma norbu » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:07 pm

Jkedrup, that's kind of what I've been doing already for years (sort of) with my feet on 2 different paths, since I was interested in finding a vajrayana teacher, but stumbled on dzogchen first and they welcomed me with open arms. It was beyond anything I had learned at the time and I struggled to grasp it for a few years, then decided I was not ready and so I went back and took refuge from a lama in the Vajrayana tradition, thinking about what Namkhai Norbu had said before (no limitations, you can do both). Then, I combined both types of practices for a while and yadda yadda. Now I think I am more on track with dzogchen and want to focus on all the practices I have avoided and spend most of my time with those since I have more faith in myself and my ability to succeed if I just keep trying.
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby heart » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:27 pm

padma norbu wrote:Jkedrup, that's kind of what I've been doing already for years (sort of) with my feet on 2 different paths, since I was interested in finding a vajrayana teacher, but stumbled on dzogchen first and they welcomed me with open arms. It was beyond anything I had learned at the time and I struggled to grasp it for a few years, then decided I was not ready and so I went back and took refuge from a lama in the Vajrayana tradition, thinking about what Namkhai Norbu had said before (no limitations, you can do both). Then, I combined both types of practices for a while and yadda yadda. Now I think I am more on track with dzogchen and want to focus on all the practices I have avoided and spend most of my time with those since I have more faith in myself and my ability to succeed if I just keep trying.


Keep the books, you will probably need them again. :smile:

/magnus
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sönam » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:38 pm

heart wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Jkedrup, that's kind of what I've been doing already for years (sort of) with my feet on 2 different paths, since I was interested in finding a vajrayana teacher, but stumbled on dzogchen first and they welcomed me with open arms. It was beyond anything I had learned at the time and I struggled to grasp it for a few years, then decided I was not ready and so I went back and took refuge from a lama in the Vajrayana tradition, thinking about what Namkhai Norbu had said before (no limitations, you can do both). Then, I combined both types of practices for a while and yadda yadda. Now I think I am more on track with dzogchen and want to focus on all the practices I have avoided and spend most of my time with those since I have more faith in myself and my ability to succeed if I just keep trying.


Keep the books, you will probably need them again. :smile:

/magnus


Hi magnus,

For Dzogchen you don't need books. :rolling:

S
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:53 pm

For Dzogchen you don't need books. :rolling:

Well then, padma norbu should get rid of his dzogchen books, coz for anything else he may actually need them. :tongue:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby heart » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:45 pm

Sönam wrote:
Hi magnus,

For Dzogchen you don't need books. :rolling:

S


So why don't you throw out your Longchenpa books? :smile:

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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Re: Any dzogchenpas ever feel the need to sell buddhist book

Postby Sönam » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:59 pm

heart wrote:
Sönam wrote:
Hi magnus,

For Dzogchen you don't need books. :rolling:

S


So why don't you throw out your Longchenpa books? :smile:

/magnus


To found quotes when we discuss together ... otherwise you have difficulties to accept my sayings :jumping:

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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