Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby dharmagoat » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:00 pm

"…had naturally begotten in me a power of concentration beyond the average. My hour of mental prayer every morning and another hour every evening for nearly a quarter of a century had given me a facility in quieting the life of the senses of the discursive mind, and a capacity for fixing my attention with a quiet steady regard on the subject of consideration. (=shamata imo, not his term)

…I brooded over the mystery of life, not trying to solve it, but striving to lose myself in its depth, allowing its inexplicableness to flow over me.

This was the effect of my contemplation upon me. A new faculty of knowing seemed to be born in me, in the quiet stillness yet intense activity of consciousness within me. I seemed to touch the heart of reality, the very essence of existence, with a directness, an immediacy, rendering all my former knowledge false and illusory. As it were, I seemed to sense another dimension; or perhaps I should express it better were I to say that all dimensions seemed to go, leaving me conscious of presence, a reality having no form that the senses could comprehend, yet not abstract and lifeless, as were the ideas of the mind, but concrete, vital, palpitating with realness."

It is fascinating to read a description of śamathā and mahāmudra/dzogchen meditation independent of Buddhist terms and concepts. It provides yet another perspective, and is invaluable for that reason.

It brings home the fact that this is a natural, spontaneous, and universal experience, and not a fabrication based on a particular culture or tradition.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Simon E. » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:37 pm

True that.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:08 pm

Lovely stuff.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:01 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:How does that affect me here and now?


If you really followed that line of thinking yourself, you would never post.
??? :shrug: ??? I don't get your point. My question was how does the existence of dzogchen in different solar systems affect me here and now? I think that it is a relevant question. I mean, if I was unaware of the existence of dzogchen practitioners in different solar systems I don't think it would affect my practice (it hasn't until now), so why would being aware of them affect my practice? It no more affects my life than knowing (or accepting that there may well be) other forms of ignorant sentient beings in other solar systems. I can't see how it really changes anything.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby muni » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:07 pm

dharmagoat wrote:It is fascinating to read a description of śamathā and mahāmudra/dzogchen meditation independent of Buddhist terms and concepts. It provides yet another perspective, and is invaluable for that reason.



Not dependent on terms and concepts while excluding no any thing.

*All - inclusive*.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Adamantine » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:06 am

Locked it to clean up a post, and I apologize for the delayed unlocking. Back to the discussion!
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby pensum » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:14 pm

Simon E. wrote:He Bede Griffith, later learned about Dzogchen and I think that he identified his experience as that.
It is also worth noting that for the rest of his long life he remained a Catholic monk and priest.


Simon, the quote being discussed was written by John Tettemer (the book can be downloaded for free at https://archive.org/details/iwasmonkautobiog00tett), so why do you keep saying that this is Bede Griffiths whose full name is Alan Richard Griffiths?
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby smcj » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:37 pm

pensum wrote:Simon, the quote being discussed was written by John Tettemer (the book can be downloaded for free at https://archive.org/details/iwasmonkautobiog00tett)

If somebody is going to actually look at the book, the first 200+ pages are a straight autobiography of a Catholic Priest from 100 years ago. You might want to skip that part. It doesn't get of interest until he gets sick and is recuperating in Switzerland. That's when the weird experiences start to happen to him.

I literally stumbled on the book. It was on a shelf of basically free stuff. I picked it up because I had been reading too much pro-religious material and wanted to balance my reading. The the title "I Was a Monk" seemed like it would fit the bill. I thought he'd reject the hypocrisy of the Church, or be gay, or something. But when it got to the point where he was having these Mahamudra/Dzogchen type experiences and was totally confused by them since he came from a monotheistic perspective, I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Suffice it to say that it did not meet my expectations of being a negative book about religion. I hope somebody else enjoys it as much as I did.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:09 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Ivo wrote:Rather we are getting in a territory which is totally unproductive, because I do not have any kind of perceived authority.

Aren't you a lama?


For a limited number of people I may be in this role, but what I do is very controversial and I can not serve here as any kind of authority. As this topic of discussion is quite serious and has a lot of implications it will be meaningful only if some "universally" accepted teacher comes forward with some clear statements......



If you would really think it had those implications and that you had the qualifications you claim, then you would have clamped your mouth shut and wound't even have begun talking about your own experience.

Either you talk with confidence because it is the right thing to do or you leave it or do as the lamas do, say "it is written..." and cite one of the texts. The turn this discusson takes at that point makes me feel uncomfortable.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:23 pm

pensum wrote:
Simon E. wrote:He Bede Griffith, later learned about Dzogchen and I think that he identified his experience as that.
It is also worth noting that for the rest of his long life he remained a Catholic monk and priest.


Simon, the quote being discussed was written by John Tettemer (the book can be downloaded for free at https://archive.org/details/iwasmonkautobiog00tett), so why do you keep saying that this is Bede Griffiths whose full name is Alan Richard Griffiths?

I said no such thing. I referred to the monk Bede Griffith and his experience of Dzogchen.
II have never heard of John Tettemer who appears to have had experiences which mirror those of Dzogchen.
If I added inadvertently to confusion, I apologise.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Snovid » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:42 pm

Perhaps nebulas are chakras? ;)
Maybe Thigle is an indicator from what region of space
comes any tantra? ;)
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I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Maybe that is prapanca ?
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Snovid » Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:47 pm

ImageImage

Image
Image
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Ivo » Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:40 pm

theanarchist wrote:If you would really think it had those implications and that you had the qualifications you claim, then you would have clamped your mouth shut and wound't even have begun talking about your own experience.

Either you talk with confidence because it is the right thing to do or you leave it or do as the lamas do, say "it is written..." and cite one of the texts. The turn this discusson takes at that point makes me feel uncomfortable.


This was quite uncalled for.
Sorry that the discussion made you feel uncomfortable. It is normal.
Keeping my mouth shut is what I usually do, and you are right that it is often the best approach to online discussions. Thanks for reminding me, I will try to keep it in mind :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:23 pm

Ivo wrote: It is traditionally said that there are in existence more than 6 400 000 Dzogchen tantras and only a fraction of those have been taught on Earth.


According to tradition, there were 6,400,000 slokas of Dzogchen, not tantras.

Those shlokas were all taught by Garab Dorje.

However, the tradition holds that not all the 6,400,000 shlokas were translated into Tibetan, for example, the bkod pa chen po in 500,000 shlokas was never translated into Tibetan.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Ivo » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Ivo wrote: It is traditionally said that there are in existence more than 6 400 000 Dzogchen tantras and only a fraction of those have been taught on Earth.


According to tradition, there were 6,400,000 slokas of Dzogchen, not tantras.

Those shlokas were all taught by Garab Dorje.

However, the tradition holds that not all the 6,400,000 shlokas were translated into Tibetan, for example, the bkod pa chen po in 500,000 shlokas was never translated into Tibetan.


You are correct. The statements of Dzogchen have often been called 'tantras' by my teachers. They are often referred to as "6400000 Dzogchen tantras", but I should have been more precise. And my 'taught on Earth' I meant a continuing living tradition, not a one-time event. English is not my native language and I often I do not express myself as clearly as I should. Sorry for that.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby smcj » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:20 am

If you was (sic) such a Guru what are you doing every day front of the PC in internet chat forums?

Funny, when yangsi Kalu R. was here in L.A. I suggested/requested that he participate in some of these forums. I didn't ask him to post per se, just read so he would get a good idea of how badly we mangle Dharma. He didn't go for it. Oh well...
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Seishin » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:46 am

For thread is temporarily locked. Sorry for any inconveniences.

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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby Seishin » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:09 pm

Topic reopened. Please; No Ad Hominem/Personal Attacks, and Be polite. Rudeness in any form will not be tolerated. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant will initially be suspended to give the moderating team time to discuss if there is to be further action.
viewtopic.php?f=109&t=12768&view=unread#unread

Thank you.
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Re: Dzogchen practiced on different solar systems?

Postby oldbob » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:30 am

muni wrote:
dharmagoat wrote:It is fascinating to read a description of śamathā and mahāmudra/dzogchen meditation independent of Buddhist terms and concepts. It provides yet another perspective, and is invaluable for that reason.



Not dependent on terms and concepts while excluding no any thing.

*All - inclusive*.


--- and so it is "like" that.

--- and so if the universe is a big place - then perhaps it is just logical that there will be other sentient beings and that some of those will practice Dzogchen from their own experience.

Sensing this: perhaps the OP question can be restated: if Dzogchen is practiced on different solar systems, how can I receive these teachings / get the benefit? This is a rhetorical question.

--- and so, for me, perhaps there is a difference if I practice a "sending and receiving" to a limited time / space / concept OR if I practice "sending and receiving" beyond any time/ space / conceptual limits.

--- and so perhaps this is the practical value of asking the question as to whether Dzogchen is practiced on different solar systems.
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