What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

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What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby booncw » Fri May 24, 2013 1:56 am

Hi,

May I know what is the practice after the realisation of Dzogchen? One does not transform completely into another person after awakening, because there are habits that are not so easy to abandon. And it is not easy to always maintain presence.

Boon
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby Dronma » Fri May 24, 2013 2:44 am

NO 100% presence, NO 100% realization!!!!!!!! :cheers:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby Nilasarasvati » Fri May 24, 2013 2:52 am

Hi, Boon.

From my limited understanding:

I think it's a tough question you asked because I'm not sure if you understand what "realizing Dzogchen" really means. Because if you really realize Dzogchen and stabilize the realization, you are enlightened. You are Buddha. Done.


If you're talking about "glimpsing" the Dzogchen, or seeing for a second...that happens to many fortunate individuals who meet realized Lamas. But theres a quote that even if you've seen the nature of your mind and you know what it's like, you are Like a Child on the battlefield--you know who the enemies are, but you are helpless before them. So you are still a beginner--the practices look just the same for you as everybody else.

May I know what is the practice after the realisation of Dzogchen? One does not transform completely into another person after awakening, because there are habits that are not so easy to abandon. And it is not easy to always maintain presence.


1. If you've really realized Dzogchen...like, stabilized the recognition as they say, you don't really practice anymore. You're done. You can engage in practice or look like you're meditating or do retreats, but it's just display. In fact everything in your life is always just display, only now you recognize that 100% of the time.
2. If you've really realized dzogchen, you may have habits but you're not attached to them anymore. You'd be happy to go without a cigarette for the rest of your life, or chain-smoke until the second you die. You'd be happy waking up to a cup of coffee or a cup of hot urine. No difference. Everything is the mandala of pure perception.
3. And if you've really realized Dzogchen, there's no presence to maintain or lose.

:toilet: take everything I said with a grain of salt.

I think the stories about great masters are the best reference for me.
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby Nilasarasvati » Fri May 24, 2013 2:55 am

Yeah about the masters, btw--

My favorite stories are about the 5 great Kagyu patriarchs: Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, Milarepa, Gampopa. They were all enlightened beings (once they realized) and even after that they were humorous, engaged in all kinds of enlightened hijinks (for lack of a better word) and had plenty of enjoyment--a famous (perhaps badly translated) quote from Tilopa is

"Enjoyment does not bind; attachment binds! Give up attachment, Naropa!"
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby booncw » Fri May 24, 2013 3:37 am

Thank you very much Nilasarasvati. I am new to the Dzogchen teaching and yes I have recently met a Dzogchen master, although I have been a Buddhist for a very long time. Before Dzogchen, I was exposed to theravada, mahayana and zen. I agree with all that you've pointed out. If my Dzogchen awareness is stable, I shouldn't be concerned about practising too! :lol:
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby booncw » Fri May 24, 2013 4:05 am

After every glimpse, i'll laugh for awhile. In the last glimpse, I saw the nature of mind and life is somewhat a joke. In this glimpse, I realised I had treated my previous glimpse as a diamond. Then, I was afraid I would lose that diamond. Now, I realised that I can't lose it. It will always be here with me. Thank you again!
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby Yeti » Fri May 24, 2013 4:58 am

Isn't there a saying; "Meditation isn't, getting used to is"

Which may have come from this quote;

"Meditation is familiarisation with realisation"
Jigten Sumgon Gonchig: The Single Intent, the Sacred Dharma

It seems that abiding in rigpa in regards to both Dzogchen practice and realisation, is basically it. I would add that abiding in rigpa is when the wisdom channel is fully open, and not just our mundane practice.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby heart » Fri May 24, 2013 5:19 am

booncw wrote:After every glimpse, i'll laugh for awhile. In the last glimpse, I saw the nature of mind and life is somewhat a joke. In this glimpse, I realised I had treated my previous glimpse as a diamond. Then, I was afraid I would lose that diamond. Now, I realised that I can't lose it. It will always be here with me. Thank you again!


In your statement here it is clear that you think realization is some kind of understanding, "oh, it is like this!". But that is just your mind, your thoughts taking for a drive. This can certainly happen after a real glimpse of the natural state. So how are you to practice after this initial glimpse? Your master will give you instructions how to continue.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby Fa Dao » Fri May 24, 2013 8:09 am

Initially some effort is required..that lessens as you become more familiarized with the Natural state until it becomes effortless. There is nothing you can gain or acquire that you dont already have
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby booncw » Fri May 24, 2013 10:09 am

Thank you very much for the suggestions and comments, and Happy Vesak Day!
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby muni » Fri May 24, 2013 10:39 am

I don't know at all.

But so I hear here; all spontaneous practices in daily life are like loving joyful kisses or brightful stars.
Okay that said, I go back to clean the toilet.

Happy Vesak Day Booncw! Happy Vesak Day for all. :smile: :buddha1: :bow:
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby lobster » Fri May 24, 2013 11:05 am

booncw wrote:Hi,

May I know what is the practice after the realisation of Dzogchen? One does not transform completely into another person after awakening, because there are habits that are not so easy to abandon. And it is not easy to always maintain presence.

Boon



Go for rebirth.
In this very lifetime. In this very body.
In other words, start again :meditate:

:woohoo: Life as a Buddha :woohoo:
Now you are talking . . .
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby oldbob » Fri May 24, 2013 1:47 pm

muni wrote:I don't know at all.

But so I hear here; all spontaneous practices in daily life are like loving joyful kisses or brightful stars.
Okay that said, I go back to clean the toilet.

Happy Vesak Day Booncw! Happy Vesak Day for all. :smile: :buddha1: :bow:


:good:

Tha†'s about it.

& if it is full, empty it, & if it is empty, fill it: but with Awareness! :smile:

So ANYTHING you do with Awareness becomes a brightful and joyful practice: even narcissistic Yantra Yoga and nit picking Vajra Dance! :smile:

AND then there are the most secret, 7th lamp, practices of singing off key Tibetan folk songs, and jumping around, like you've got a mouse in your undies, Tibetan folk dance. :smile:

Amazing! :rolling:

Happy Vesak Day Booncw! Happy Vesak Day for all. :smile: :buddha1: :bow:
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby MalaBeads » Fri May 24, 2013 5:10 pm

Pretty funny, OB. About the mouse and all.

Gonna tell a story here. But first: a disclaimer!! I don't know nothing about seventh lamps, etc.

But I can relate a story about Tibetan dancing.

One Losar, when I was in Boudha, a family invited me to their celebration. Mind you, I didn't know much about the customs, especially the one where if you empty your chang glass, they immediately fill it and so on and so on. I thought you were supposed to empty it, (to be polite), so thats what I kept doing and then they kept doing their thing and pretty soon, well, i was a bit inebriated. But I digress.

At one point in the afternoon, a group of the elders got up and started to dance. My eyes immediately filled with tears. I don't know why (maybe it was the chang) but i was so moved. THEN, the eight year old girl in the group got up to also sing and dance. Do you know what she sang?? "Like A Virgin" by Madonna! I am completely sure her elders had no idea whatsoever what she was singing.

So times have changed.

The preceding story is just a big digression. But I had to tell it.

Ciao.

:hi:
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby Fa Dao » Fri May 24, 2013 7:41 pm

MB..agreed..that was a story that HAD to be told... :twothumbsup:
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby heart » Fri May 24, 2013 10:29 pm

MalaBeads wrote:One Losar, when I was in Boudha, a family invited me to their celebration. Mind you, I didn't know much about the customs, especially the one where if you empty your chang glass, they immediately fill it and so on and so on. I thought you were supposed to empty it, (to be polite), so thats what I kept doing and then they kept doing their thing and pretty soon, well, i was a bit inebriated. But I digress.


he he :smile: I have had exactly the same experience. Thank you for reminding me.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby MalaBeads » Fri May 24, 2013 10:52 pm

heart wrote:
MalaBeads wrote:One Losar, when I was in Boudha, a family invited me to their celebration. Mind you, I didn't know much about the customs, especially the one where if you empty your chang glass, they immediately fill it and so on and so on. I thought you were supposed to empty it, (to be polite), so thats what I kept doing and then they kept doing their thing and pretty soon, well, i was a bit inebriated. But I digress.


he he :smile: I have had exactly the same experience. Thank you for reminding me.

/magnus


Thats wonderful, Magnus. Wonder if it was the same family.

Chang.....it doesn't take much!
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby lobster » Sat May 25, 2013 12:11 pm

I made it through the wilderness
Somehow I made it through
Didn't know how lost I was
Until I found you

I was beat incomplete
I'd been had, I was sad and blue
But you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
Shiny and new

[Chorus:]

Like a Buddha
Touched for the very first time
Like a Buddha
When your heart beats [after first time, "With your heartbeat"]
Next to mine

:woohoo:
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby MalaBeads » Sat May 25, 2013 12:15 pm

lobster wrote:I made it through the wilderness
Somehow I made it through
Didn't know how lost I was
Until I found you

I was beat incomplete
I'd been had, I was sad and blue
But you made me feel
Yeah, you made me feel
Shiny and new

[Chorus:]

Like a Buddha
Touched for the very first time
Like a Buddha
When your heart beats [after first time, "With your heartbeat"]
Next to mine

:woohoo:


Too funny.

So this is what it's come to?? Rewriting Madonna songs?

Geesh....

What would Trungpa say??

:rolling:
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Re: What is the practice after Dzogchen realisation

Postby oldbob » Sat May 25, 2013 6:29 pm

I'll drink to that!

:cheers:
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