mutsuk wrote:Good point indeed magnus!heart wrote:Still respect is a good thing and maybe it should be applied also to the traditional way of teaching and practicing Dzogchen.
Care to be more explicit ? Ordinary Ngondro (the 4 thoughts) and extraordinary Ngondro (Refuge, bodhicitta, etc.) are common to sutras, tantras and Dzogchen. That is a literary fact and a practice fact.heruka wrote: im going to go to the mall, in that action and conduct, is that also ngondro too to dzogchenpa?
if by practice you mean ritual, if by prelimaries you mean preparation, if by commentary you mean an understanding, then all things can be viewed as such, but that is not explicit as you say. it is only explict if one is aware of it.
Now if you want some quotes, volume I of the commentary on the Dra Thelgyur by Garab Dorje (I, p. 684):
"— O master, holder of the Vajra!
Single antitode to Samsara and the three realms,
Refuge of migrating beings without protection,
Great Ladder leading to the Path Liberation:
I take Refuge in you, the Lamp dispelling ignorance,
To be protected from the hords of darkness."
Now if you need more references to preliminary practices in Dzogchen cycles, go to the TBRC website and look at the contents of the various Nyingthiks there, you'll find Ngondro in nearly each of them.
please explain for others benefit since you raised this quote.