Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:13 pm

Thank you, oldbob! :heart:
Your suggestions are sensible and your motivation is kind.
Let's hope that somebody who is in charge will read and consider seriously your words.
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby spyderix » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:43 am

Its quite strange post this last one old bob. Yes translation was really hard to follow so I wrote to webcast team and they moved mic a little and it was perfect. I think if you communicated that your internet is slow they would do icecast for you. First you should communicate your need then demand something and i think complain if you where ignored and so on and of course find solution. Teaching is really Something. I'm astouned. I never have had courage to read such book in this kind of manner :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:47 am

spyderix wrote:Its quite strange post this last one old bob. Yes translation was really hard to follow so I wrote to webcast team and they moved mic a little and it was perfect. I think if you communicated that your internet is slow they would do icecast for you. First you should communicate your need then demand something and i think complain if you where ignored and so on and of course find solution. Teaching is really Something. I'm astouned. I never have had courage to read such book in this kind of manner :smile:


You are right, he is certainly very courageous Yeshe Khyentse.

/magnus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:30 pm

All the above and big hugs to K Yeshe.

Much better technical audio quality today, but sibilance (the hissing of the s sound at the end of words), should be easily improvable for future webcasts.

Restricted texts for audio techys only:
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Fix-Si ... id=4265682
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-essing
http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=325

Without a transcript, for this old bean's fuddled brain at 4:30 AM, it is hard to parse what information K Yeshe is presenting into useful themes or useful take-away understandings or activities / practices. Once the transcript is available, I think that the grouping of K Yeshe's ideas will be much more easily accomplished.

You can line number the transcript, and then prepare an outline of the themes, tied to the line numbers of the text. Then you can group similar themes into a useful redacted outline form to be able to have useful take-away information. Then you can do the same for practices. For some people, I think doing a nundro might be less painful - but different strokes for different folks.

Even if the only useful take-away from the webcast is the fact that you can now have "permission" to read (and buy) the text, this is a HUGE, positive, sea change, accomplishment in terms of the traditional way of presenting this material, in the formal Nyingmapa system of things.

The key point is that, from hearing K Yeshe's enthusiastic presentation, regardless of the accessibility of his references or analogies, someone may be moved to buy or borrow the YL text, and read it.

Reading the text may cause enough interest to attend a Yeshe Lama retreat with a qualified Teacher, and the doing of the practices contained in the precious Yeshe Lama, (under the guidance of a qualified Teacher), which can lead to realization in one life time.

This is HUGE, sea change, progress in terms of allowing restricted material to be available more easily.
The price is still a huge road block for most people.

http://www.shambhala.com/yeshe-lama.html

When I first started my YL studies, with Ven. Lama Gonpo Tseten Rinpoche,

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... n_Rinpoche

in 1980, all of his students circulated xerox copies of the texts among themselves. Perhaps, for practitioners, this would be allowable by the translators of this open source text. Note: anyone who can read Tibetan has always been able to buy the YL text, without restriction, in that language.

Major progress and well worth the 2 hour a day buy-in for members of the DC, even if you don't have a clue about what he is talking about.

It should be noted that ALL of the material in the precious Yeshe Lama, has been taught by ChNNR over the years, in his more than 500 retreats.

Equal access to the transcripts, CDs and DVDs of ChNNR's unsurpassed Teachings will allow more people to get the benefit.

Big hugs to K Yeshe

Please everybody, send big hugs to K Yeshe and maybe things will get better. :heart:

ob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:45 pm

oldbob wrote:All the above and big hugs to K Yeshe.

Even if the only useful take-away from the webcast is the fact that you can now have "permission" to read (and buy) the text, this is a HUGE, positive, sea change, accomplishment in terms of the traditional way of presenting this material, in the formal Nyingmapa system of things.

The key point is that, from hearing K Yeshe's enthusiastic presentation, regardless of the accessibility of his references or analogies, someone may be moved to buy or borrow the YL text, and read it.

Reading the text may cause enough interest to attend a Yeshe Lama retreat with a qualified Teacher, and the doing of the practices contained in the precious Yeshe Lama, (under the guidance of a qualified Teacher), which can lead to realization in one life time.

This is HUGE, sea change, progress in terms of allowing restricted material to be available more easily.
The price is still a huge road block for most people.

http://www.shambhala.com/yeshe-lama.html

ob


Ob, are you absolutely sure that by attending this teaching by Yeshe Namkhai on the webcast that everybody that hears the webcast has permissions to buy the Yeshe Lama from Shambhala?

Reason being, I wrote Yeshe Namkhai and he answered to me that he would not be giving the empowerment for the text, and that he had the intention to explain the essence, but had no intention to give traditional way this lung for this text. This does not mean he wouldn't give direct introduction, but the empowerment and lung for this text is what Shambhala needs as the criteria to buy this text, in the form of a wang (which generally is done in person) and lung for the text, so this means the Lama is giving the lung by reading the entire text, and you get the Rig Pai Tsal Wang.

So, when I get an answer from him explaining this in that way, and further that my interpretation is that he isn't giving Rig Pai Tsal Wang, or even the lung for this text, and that is the requirement for buying this restricted text from Shambhala, I can't quite understand your post that you are saying it is now ok for practitioners to buy or borrow the Shambhala text translated by Lama Chonam and Sangye Khandro?

Secondly, Lama Tony Duff has a translation of Yeshe Lama through Wisdom Publications, and although there is much to be said about not buying the text without authorization, it is not as "restricted" in the sense that you can't buy it at all without many questions for instance, however still there is this urging to get the empowerment etc...

My suggestion would be for you to write to Yeshe Namkhai, and ask him very directly if it is alright to buy the book translated by Lama Chonam & Sangye Khandro from Shambhala (maybe not for you personally but for those that are listening and heard the name and text "Yeshe Lama" for the first time on this webcast for instance). What are the criteria, and how was that satisfied.

My intention is not to be "the dharma police"... I'm too long time a practitioner for that kind of game playing... but since this is really important to understand, I think taking a second look at it would not hurt.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:50 pm

T. Chokyi wrote:Ob, are you absolutely sure that by attending this teaching by Yeshe Namkhai on the webcast that everybody that hears the webcast has permissions to buy the Yeshe Lama from Shambhala?


I have no idea whether people who attend this teaching have permission to buy the Yeshe Lama or not.
However, I agree 100% with the following quote from oldbob. :smile:


oldbob wrote:It should be noted that ALL of the material in the precious Yeshe Lama, has been taught by ChNNR over the years, in his more than 500 retreats.

Equal access to the transcripts, CDs and DVDs of ChNNR's unsurpassed Teachings will allow more people to get the benefit.

ob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:55 am

T. Chokyi wrote:
oldbob wrote:All the above and big hugs to K Yeshe.

Even if the only useful take-away from the webcast is the fact that you can now have "permission" to read (and buy) the text, this is a HUGE, positive, sea change, accomplishment in terms of the traditional way of presenting this material, in the formal Nyingmapa system of things.

The key point is that, from hearing K Yeshe's enthusiastic presentation, regardless of the accessibility of his references or analogies, someone may be moved to buy or borrow the YL text, and read it.

Reading the text may cause enough interest to attend a Yeshe Lama retreat with a qualified Teacher, and the doing of the practices contained in the precious Yeshe Lama, (under the guidance of a qualified Teacher), which can lead to realization in one life time.

This is HUGE, sea change, progress in terms of allowing restricted material to be available more easily.
The price is still a huge road block for most people.

http://www.shambhala.com/yeshe-lama.html

ob


Ob, are you absolutely sure that by attending this teaching by Yeshe Namkhai on the webcast that everybody that hears the webcast has permissions to buy the Yeshe Lama from Shambhala?

Reason being, I wrote Yeshe Namkhai and he answered to me that he would not be giving the empowerment for the text, and that he had the intention to explain the essence, but had no intention to give traditional way this lung for this text. This does not mean he wouldn't give direct introduction, but the empowerment and lung for this text is what Shambhala needs as the criteria to buy this text, in the form of a wang (which generally is done in person) and lung for the text, so this means the Lama is giving the lung by reading the entire text, and you get the Rig Pai Tsal Wang.

So, when I get an answer from him explaining this in that way, and further that my interpretation is that he isn't giving Rig Pai Tsal Wang, or even the lung for this text, and that is the requirement for buying this restricted text from Shambhala, I can't quite understand your post that you are saying it is now ok for practitioners to buy or borrow the Shambhala text translated by Lama Chonam and Sangye Khandro?

Secondly, Lama Tony Duff has a translation of Yeshe Lama through Wisdom Publications, and although there is much to be said about not buying the text without authorization, it is not as "restricted" in the sense that you can't buy it at all without many questions for instance, however still there is this urging to get the empowerment etc...

My suggestion would be for you to write to Yeshe Namkhai, and ask him very directly if it is alright to buy the book translated by Lama Chonam & Sangye Khandro from Shambhala (maybe not for you personally but for those that are listening and heard the name and text "Yeshe Lama" for the first time on this webcast for instance). What are the criteria, and how was that satisfied.

My intention is not to be "the dharma police"... I'm too long time a practitioner for that kind of game playing... but since this is really important to understand, I think taking a second look at it would not hurt.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

idunno.

I was basing my assumption on what I was reading in the similar thread over on VC and also my inner sense of things.
Several people had mentioned that there was permission.
One post mentioned that people were successful ordering the book after they just had referred to having DI from ChNNR.

My 2 cents would be that it is best to write to Sangye Khandro, directly and ask her, based on what your direct experience is, and see if she will give you permission.

Note: whenever I am referring to Sangye Khandro alone, I really mean Lama Chonam & Sangye Khandro.

The Shambala requirements may be able to be overruled by Sangye Khandro, since they come from her.

That said, let's look at the Shambala requirements. "What are the criteria and how was that satisfied."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restricted Text:

To purchase or own a copy of Yeshe Lama you must have received the Rig pa'i tsal wang ["empowerment into the dynamic energy of awareness"] and the reading transmission of Yeshe Lama from a qualified lineage holder, or have received the Rig pa'i tsal wang from another Dzogchen text along with permission to study Yeshe Lama from a qualified lineage holder. To order through our website, you must read the four questions listed in the next paragraph and then answer them (in the comments section of the checkout form). This book cannot be ordered by phone. To order by mail or fax, please include a letter answering these four questions:

1. Have you received the Rig pa'i tsal wang ["empowerment into the dynamic energy of awareness"] from a qualified lineage holder?
(Note: I believe that the web DI from ChNNR counts for this.)
2. Name of the lineage holder who gave you the above, the location where you received it, and the date.
3. Have you received the reading transmission of Yeshe Lama or permission to study Yeshe Lama from a qualified lineage holder?
(Note: there are lots of kindly, qualified lineage holders who will give you permission, if you ask them politely.)
4. Name of the lineage holder who gave you the above, the location where you received it, and the date.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

I believe that Ven. Jigme Lingpa received full empowerments, in vision / dream from the all knowing Ven Longchenpa on several different occasions, even though they were separated in time by several hundred years. I believe that this is widely accepted by all the Lamas.

This is spoken of in Jigme Lingpa's secret autobiography, Apparitions of the Self: The Secret Autobiographies of a Tibetan Visionary- A Translation and Study of Jigme Lingpa's Dancing Moon in the Water and Dakki's Grand Secret Talk

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/069100948 ... 605&sr=1-1

Since this is so ---

If someone were to pray with great faith to the all knowing Longchenpa or the great yogi Ven. Jigme Lingpa and request and receive permissions, empowerments, and readings, in a vision or dream, perhaps this would be acceptable to Sangye Khandro.

:stirthepot: :smile:

End :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

Idunno?

The key point would be to write to Sangye Khandro and ask her directly, based on your personal experiences. She is a fully qualified, most kindly, lineage holder. I would follow whatever she suggests. Perhaps she could suggest where you might make a YL retreat.

http://www.berotsana.org/sangye-khandro/

If someone wants to write to K Yeshe and ask him for permission to read / study the YL, based on attending this seminar / webcast, maybe this could help also.

Maybe everything depends on karma.

Idunno.

Seek and ye shall find. Put out the wish. Make the wish as big as the universe and see what happens. That is what I did. :smile:

Hope this helps!

ob :heart:

PS - Yes, it is always a good idea to keep the Dharma police happy. If anyone has any questions about what I write, feel free to ask away. :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Yudron » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:18 am

oldbob wrote:
T. Chokyi wrote:
oldbob wrote:All the above and big hugs to K Yeshe.

Even if the only useful take-away from the webcast is the fact that you can now have "permission" to read (and buy) the text, this is a HUGE, positive, sea change, accomplishment in terms of the traditional way of presenting this material, in the formal Nyingmapa system of things.

The key point is that, from hearing K Yeshe's enthusiastic presentation, regardless of the accessibility of his references or analogies, someone may be moved to buy or borrow the YL text, and read it.

Reading the text may cause enough interest to attend a Yeshe Lama retreat with a qualified Teacher, and the doing of the practices contained in the precious Yeshe Lama, (under the guidance of a qualified Teacher), which can lead to realization in one life time.

This is HUGE, sea change, progress in terms of allowing restricted material to be available more easily.
The price is still a huge road block for most people.

http://www.shambhala.com/yeshe-lama.html

ob


Ob, are you absolutely sure that by attending this teaching by Yeshe Namkhai on the webcast that everybody that hears the webcast has permissions to buy the Yeshe Lama from Shambhala?

Reason being, I wrote Yeshe Namkhai and he answered to me that he would not be giving the empowerment for the text, and that he had the intention to explain the essence, but had no intention to give traditional way this lung for this text. This does not mean he wouldn't give direct introduction, but the empowerment and lung for this text is what Shambhala needs as the criteria to buy this text, in the form of a wang (which generally is done in person) and lung for the text, so this means the Lama is giving the lung by reading the entire text, and you get the Rig Pai Tsal Wang.

So, when I get an answer from him explaining this in that way, and further that my interpretation is that he isn't giving Rig Pai Tsal Wang, or even the lung for this text, and that is the requirement for buying this restricted text from Shambhala, I can't quite understand your post that you are saying it is now ok for practitioners to buy or borrow the Shambhala text translated by Lama Chonam and Sangye Khandro?

Secondly, Lama Tony Duff has a translation of Yeshe Lama through Wisdom Publications, and although there is much to be said about not buying the text without authorization, it is not as "restricted" in the sense that you can't buy it at all without many questions for instance, however still there is this urging to get the empowerment etc...

My suggestion would be for you to write to Yeshe Namkhai, and ask him very directly if it is alright to buy the book translated by Lama Chonam & Sangye Khandro from Shambhala (maybe not for you personally but for those that are listening and heard the name and text "Yeshe Lama" for the first time on this webcast for instance). What are the criteria, and how was that satisfied.

My intention is not to be "the dharma police"... I'm too long time a practitioner for that kind of game playing... but since this is really important to understand, I think taking a second look at it would not hurt.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

idunno.

I was basing my assumption on what I was reading in the similar thread over on VC and also my inner sense of things.
Several people had mentioned that there was permission.
One post mentioned that people were successful ordering the book after they just had referred to having DI from ChNNR.

My 2 cents would be that it is best to write to Sangye Khandro, directly and ask her, based on what your direct experience is, and see if she will give you permission.

Note: whenever I am referring to Sangye Khandro alone, I really mean Lama Chonam & Sangye Khandro.

The Shambala requirements may be able to be overruled by Sangye Khandro, since they come from her.

That said, let's look at the Shambala requirements. "What are the criteria and how was that satisfied."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restricted Text:

To purchase or own a copy of Yeshe Lama you must have received the Rig pa'i tsal wang ["empowerment into the dynamic energy of awareness"] and the reading transmission of Yeshe Lama from a qualified lineage holder, or have received the Rig pa'i tsal wang from another Dzogchen text along with permission to study Yeshe Lama from a qualified lineage holder. To order through our website, you must read the four questions listed in the next paragraph and then answer them (in the comments section of the checkout form). This book cannot be ordered by phone. To order by mail or fax, please include a letter answering these four questions:

1. Have you received the Rig pa'i tsal wang ["empowerment into the dynamic energy of awareness"] from a qualified lineage holder?
(Note: I believe that the web DI from ChNNR counts for this.)
2. Name of the lineage holder who gave you the above, the location where you received it, and the date.
3. Have you received the reading transmission of Yeshe Lama or permission to study Yeshe Lama from a qualified lineage holder?
(Note: there are lots of kindly, qualified lineage holders who will give you permission, if you ask them politely.)
4. Name of the lineage holder who gave you the above, the location where you received it, and the date.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

I believe that Ven. Jigme Lingpa received full empowerments, in vision / dream from the all knowing Ven Longchenpa on several different occasions, even though they were separated in time by several hundred years. I believe that this is widely accepted by all the Lamas.

This is spoken of in Jigme Lingpa's secret autobiography, Apparitions of the Self: The Secret Autobiographies of a Tibetan Visionary- A Translation and Study of Jigme Lingpa's Dancing Moon in the Water and Dakki's Grand Secret Talk

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/069100948 ... 605&sr=1-1

Since this is so ---

If someone were to pray with great faith to the all knowing Longchenpa or the great yogi Ven. Jigme Lingpa and request and receive permissions, empowerments, and readings, in a vision or dream, perhaps this would be acceptable to Sangye Khandro.

:stirthepot: :smile:

End :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

Idunno?

The key point would be to write to Sangye Khandro and ask her directly, based on your personal experiences. She is a fully qualified, most kindly, lineage holder. I would follow whatever she suggests. Perhaps she could suggest where you might make a YL retreat.

http://www.berotsana.org/sangye-khandro/

If someone wants to write to K Yeshe and ask him for permission to read / study the YL, based on attending this seminar / webcast, maybe this could help also.

Maybe everything depends on karma.

Idunno.

Seek and ye shall find. Put out the wish. Make the wish as big as the universe and see what happens. That is what I did. :smile:

Hope this helps!

ob :heart:

PS - Yes, it is always a good idea to keep the Dharma police happy. If anyone has any questions about what I write, feel free to ask away. :smile:


Please don't call her the Dharma Police. I'm sure she is just following the instructions of her lamas such as Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Khenpo Namdrol.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:37 am

oldbob wrote:PS - Yes, it is always a good idea to keep the Dharma police happy. If anyone has any questions about what I write, feel free to ask away. :smile:

Yudron wrote:Please don't call her the Dharma Police. I'm sure she is just following the instructions of her lamas such as Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche and Khenpo Namdrol.


Like Yudron said, I'm not in any way "policing" here, I shared something I thought DC members might have an interest in, if you re-read my post, I am saying, I took the time to ask Yeshe Namkhai this question and he said "no" that he was not giving the lung for the text. This is something I wanted to know, and it was not necessarily just for myself that I asked.

Actually, I own the book already, no need to ask at Shambhala or anywhere else.

Thank you for your concern. :group:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby oldbob » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:19 am

Hi Yudron, all and All,

Your point is well taken and of course everyone should always do exactly as their Lama instructs, especially the two illustrious lineage Masters, that you mention.

Truth is that originally I was going to end that post with a reference to myself as being the Dharma police, not T. Chokyi. Then I thought that I should reference my

unswerving respect for Ekajati and Co. and so ended the post as I did. My choice of words was unfortunate because it left open the interpretation that you choose to read.

I am old and tired. Sorry.

I had absolutely no thought of being critical of T. Chokyi or the Illustrious lineage Masters that you mention. Truth. T. Chokyi's issues are good ones and I think I addressed them, but as I said, I am old and tired so I am very happy if old and respected practitioners, such as yourself air these issues and give your opinions. Everyone's views should be heard and respected. The issue of restricted versus opening the teachings of the YL is a sincere issue.

My 2 cents is that with everything becoming freely available on the web,

vajracakra com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=149&start=580&sid=135118d8728bb3a981225a2b42978550#p7156

it is now important to encourage people to find authorized lineage holders such as Sangye Khandro, and to practice the very short path techniques of the Yeshe Lama in a retreat setting under the guidance of an acknowledged lineage holder - such as Sangye Khandro.

There are other threads that point out who the traditional lineage holders for the YL are, and how to contact them.

K Yeshe was teaching from the Yeshe Lama in a restricted, members only, setting, so I feel that he was quite correct with Ekajati and Co, in his approach.

NOTE:

"The key point would be to write to Sangye Khandro and ask her directly, based on your personal experiences. She is a fully qualified, most kindly, lineage holder. I would follow whatever she suggests. Perhaps she could suggest where you might make a YL retreat.

http://www.berotsana.org/sangye-khandro/"

and

"The key point is that, from hearing K Yeshe's enthusiastic presentation, regardless of the accessibility of his references or analogies, someone may be moved to buy or borrow the YL text, and read it.

Reading the text may cause enough interest to attend a Yeshe Lama retreat with a qualified Teacher, and the doing of the practices contained in the precious Yeshe Lama, (under the guidance of a qualified Teacher), which can lead to realization in one life time."

Perhaps,I am the Dharma police - though I would never claim to be so. Hmnnnnn. Figure that one out!

That said, these issues are sincere and need to be aired, with sensitivity and respect, so that anyone who chooses to, can find a seat at the vast Dharma feast table, in a setting that works for them.

This is why Lord Buddha taught the 84,000 (means a lot) different teachings so there would be something for everyone. Ven. K Yeshe's presentation of the Yeshe Lama is one of these, and is precisely well suited for some people, as is Ven. ChNNR's and Ven. Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche's and Ven.Khenpo Namdrol's. There is room for everyone at the Dharma feast table.

In the vast luminous space beyond any characteristics, all apparent differences are resolved. It remains for each of us to work out our path with diligence. in Dzogchen, this includes going beyond all limits what so ever, to include all practices and Teachings.

Dharma belongs freely to everyone who seeks enlightenment. The open presentation of all knowledge on the web insures that there are no secrets, but what is "self secret." The evolution of traditional ways of presenting the Dharma is a good thing and will be very interesting to both observe and participate in.

ob

:heart:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Yudron » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:43 am

oldbob wrote:Hi Yudron, all and All,

Your point is well taken and of course everyone should always do exactly as their Lama instructs, especially the two illustrious lineage Masters, that you mention.

Truth is that originally I was going to end that post with a reference to myself as being the Dharma police, not T. Chokyi. Then I thought that I should reference my

unswerving respect for Ekajati and Co. and so ended the post as I did. My choice of words was unfortunate because it left open the interpretation that you choose to read.

I am old and tired. Sorry.

I had absolutely no thought of being critical of T. Chokyi or the Illustrious lineage Masters that you mention. Truth. T. Chokyi's issues are good ones and I think I addressed them, but as I said, I am old and tired so I am very happy if old and respected practitioners, such as yourself air these issues and give your opinions. Everyone's views should be heard and respected. The issue of restricted versus opening the teachings of the YL is a sincere issue.

My 2 cents is that with everything becoming freely available on the web,

vajracakra com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=149&start=580&sid=135118d8728bb3a981225a2b42978550#p7156

it is now important to encourage people to find authorized lineage holders such as Sangye Khandro, and to practice the very short path techniques of the Yeshe Lama in a retreat setting under the guidance of an acknowledged lineage holder - such as Sangye Khandro.

There are other threads that point out who the traditional lineage holders for the YL are, and how to contact them.

K Yeshe was teaching from the Yeshe Lama in a restricted, members only, setting, so I feel that he was quite correct with Ekajati and Co, in his approach.

NOTE:

"The key point would be to write to Sangye Khandro and ask her directly, based on your personal experiences. She is a fully qualified, most kindly, lineage holder. I would follow whatever she suggests. Perhaps she could suggest where you might make a YL retreat.

http://www.berotsana.org/sangye-khandro/"

and

"The key point is that, from hearing K Yeshe's enthusiastic presentation, regardless of the accessibility of his references or analogies, someone may be moved to buy or borrow the YL text, and read it.

Reading the text may cause enough interest to attend a Yeshe Lama retreat with a qualified Teacher, and the doing of the practices contained in the precious Yeshe Lama, (under the guidance of a qualified Teacher), which can lead to realization in one life time."

Perhaps,I am the Dharma police - though I would never claim to be so. Hmnnnnn. Figure that one out!

That said, these issues are sincere and need to be aired, with sensitivity and respect, so that anyone who chooses to, can find a seat at the vast Dharma feast table, in a setting that works for them.

This is why Lord Buddha taught the 84,000 (means a lot) different teachings so there would be something for everyone. Ven. K Yeshe's presentation of the Yeshe Lama is one of these, and is precisely well suited for some people, as is Ven. ChNNR's and Ven. Dungse Thinley Norbu Rinpoche's and Ven.Khenpo Namdrol's. There is room for everyone at the Dharma feast table.

In the vast luminous space beyond any characteristics, all apparent differences are resolved. It remains for each of us to work out our path with diligence. in Dzogchen, this includes going beyond all limits what so ever, to include all practices and Teachings.

Dharma belongs freely to everyone who seeks enlightenment. The open presentation of all knowledge on the web insures that there are no secrets, but what is "self secret." The evolution of traditional ways of presenting the Dharma is a good thing and will be very interesting to both observe and participate in.

ob

:heart:


I think the evaluating the pros and cons of allowing access to these texts requires the ability to see how things will consequently play out in the future, and I lack that capacity. So, I just follow the lead of the lamas I know have brought that path to its culmination.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby spyderix » Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:40 pm

Well we have quite interesting discussion above. You know Yeshi answered very clearly it all already at the beginning.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:58 pm

Yes he did. He gave direct introduction, and DR is quite enough to go into Yeshe Lama, says KY.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby T. Chokyi » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:44 pm

spyderix wrote:Well we have quite interesting discussion above. You know Yeshi answered very clearly it all already at the beginning.


LoL, I missed the beginning, but I did catch the teachings since, although it was very diffucult to remain awake at 4am this morning, since where Yeshe Namkhai's time zone also just changed from 5am to 4am for live webcast, I really wish there were replays...so the reason I asked ob if he was sure if there was this permission is because of what I said to Yeshe Namkhai and specifically how he answered to me:

Dear Yeshe,

I missed the first day, my alarm clock went off, and then I fell back to sleep,
the time for me would be 5 am (USA Eastern Time) so I missed the first day.
I am wondering if you gave the lung the first day, if you did will you give
it again?

Thank you so much!
T. Chokyi

Dear Chokyi,

thank you for your email, it is important you received direct transission from my father; if not however i will tomorrow and day after tomorrow. If you instead are interested in the empowerement of this text, i am sorry but i will not do it because i am explain the essence but i have no intention to give traditional way this lung as i am not tibetan and i don't pretend to be a lama.

Best regards
KY

:namaste:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby spyderix » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:33 pm

It was quite a talk really. I hope that Yeshi will teach more. Besides he seemed for me as if he absorbed all essence of teachings of our Master and His father. For me his level of understanding of Longsal teachings is really beyond all comprehension, some real experience. I was and still am shocked that there is such student of our Master. It is so helpful to know where to aim. Till now I was really blind.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby heart » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:57 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:Yes he did. He gave direct introduction, and DR is quite enough to go into Yeshe Lama, says KY.


Did he do that today?

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alpha » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:23 pm

heart wrote:
treehuggingoctopus wrote:Yes he did. He gave direct introduction, and DR is quite enough to go into Yeshe Lama, says KY.


Did he do that today?

/magnus



He went through the text up until the togal section.
Togal follows tomorrow .
This is D.i.
Last edited by alpha on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AOM
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:35 pm

heart wrote:
treehuggingoctopus wrote:Yes he did. He gave direct introduction, and DR is quite enough to go into Yeshe Lama, says KY.


Did he do that today?

/magnus


He gave 'formal' DI yesterday but he also implied that he was giving it the whole time he was teaching...
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alpha » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:40 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
heart wrote:
treehuggingoctopus wrote:Yes he did. He gave direct introduction, and DR is quite enough to go into Yeshe Lama, says KY.


Did he do that today?

/magnus


He gave 'formal' DI yesterday but he also implied that he was giving it the whole time he was teaching...


Post Deleted...
Yes you are quite right
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Dronma » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:12 pm

oldbob wrote:One post mentioned that people were successful ordering the book after they just had referred to having DI from ChNNR.

I can also confirm this. :smile:

oldbob wrote:In the vast luminous space beyond any characteristics, all apparent differences are resolved. It remains for each of us to work out our path with diligence. in Dzogchen, this includes going beyond all limits what so ever, to include all practices and Teachings.

Dharma belongs freely to everyone who seeks enlightenment. The open presentation of all knowledge on the web insures that there are no secrets, but what is "self secret." The evolution of traditional ways of presenting the Dharma is a good thing and will be very interesting to both observe and participate in.

ob

:heart:


There are no solid guidelines for the inner path of every individual.
As an example, Yeshe Lama came in my hands one day without even asking for it!
Magical apparitions, maybe....?!?! :tongue:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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