Greed in New Zealand

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Greed in New Zealand

Postby Thug4lyfe » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:48 am

And it's not by corporate fat cats this time!

$12 billiion loaned by student to goto university
http://nz.yahoo.com/s/343705

Yet this sort of thing is still happening here in New Zealand!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/educati ... t-a-fizzer

The minimum repayment of your university loans is 2% of pay each week/fortnightly. There really is no financial pressure. I have musician art student friends in the past who faked loans to buy instruments for their band. I've also personally participated in this shameful action on borrowing to buy a new guitar in the past. Many student would not pay back their loan any sooner because it's of "no advantage for them" and many go over to Australia because the pay is higher after their educations.

Now we in New Zealand actually have some of the least corrupt goverment in the world yet students who have no $ finacial pressure on attending universities still go around joining protests to try to claim the country is some how like Wall Street!

Just shows that Greed is can never be satisfied, when you have it good, your not grateful and just want more. Especially when you get it in your head your some sort of revolutionary even as you party down with another pack of beer and another joint while watching indie music clips on tv showing people protesting in neon colours.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby edearl » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:12 am

It is a form of socialism, but the politicians are afraid to tell their constituents the truth. Basically the government is giving away $ to students, which in many cases allows students to get advanced degrees and get higher paying jobs, which is good for New Zealand--even if the students go to other countries, because it prevents a build-up of uneducated unemployable/under-employable people from saturating the country. If these unemployable/under-employable people stay in New Zealand, there will be more people either living in the streets or taking money from the government in the form of social services.

Democratic governments seem unable to control misuse of money used for social services--basically they cannot know if a musical instrument (or whatever) will be used to adorn one's bedroom wall or be used for gainful employment. There is a little larceny when people don't pay their loans. There is more larceny if the people do not use the loan to improve their employ-ability, especially if loan money is totally wasted on booze or drugs. It is $ the government spends on social services, none of which can be guaranteed to be used by people wisely.

Ask yourself, "Will my karma improve if I pay back my loan?" If it will, start paying-off the loan.

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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:09 pm

Sorry no...this..."Democratic governments seem unable to control misuse of money used for social services....no personal offense but this is pap by the right indoctrinating the populace to destroy and dismantle the social programs that do exist run fine and welll by government.
Social security is but one program of social service which provides the exactly right amounts of money to millions upon millions of americans monthly and is not in deficit despite aims tto defund and destablize it.

Think it coincidence each financial crisis is also included with a crisis of social services....no it is plan.

Social security in the US for instance is fully funded until 2025 yet the common perception is that it is in crisis....it is not by any means considered.
You have to ask yourself american....why do you think such as thing?....you are indoctrinated to think such a thing as you are indoctrinated to think governments are unable to run social service programs..

Back to Charles Dickens time we are...let me tell you before governments did such things as provide social services...it was neither pretty nor polite the world they lived in. Charity and private enterprise do not fill the gap.

New Zealand....I'd guess there is such a thing going on as described. Do not doubt it is true. Is that worth canning the program? I know that is not stated but will occur the question.....

In the US it is all pretty much with some exceptions, such as state run programs in new mexico pay as you go.
40 to 70k runs the dept for advanced education beyond higb schools...many can simply not afford to pursue it and have that consequent debt load.
So no qualified educated workers...the corporations outsource....New Zealand or other place may have a educated qualified work force.

Why not free education..what reason under the sun...the US was the leader many many years ago in providing free education up to high school..quite revolutionary at the time government should do such a thing.
Now most do and quite a few much more.
MOre educated is the society more the society produces, the higher is the standard of living and the less crime there is.... always.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby edearl » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:59 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:Sorry no...this..."Democratic governments seem unable to control misuse of money used for social services....no personal offense but this is pap by the right indoctrinating the populace to destroy and dismantle the social programs that do exist run fine and welll by government.

True, much of the US $ spent on social services is well spent, but there is also widespread misuse. In addition to news reports, I personally know people who could work, but have not worked in years because they get social service funds.
ronnewmexico wrote:Social security is but one program of social service which provides the exactly right amounts of money to millions upon millions of americans monthly and is not in deficit despite aims tto defund and destablize it.

I didn't say anything about this issue, but basically agree with you. I am retired and get my social security check each month, and medicare. I paid for it for 40 years, and believe the government should repay my savings.
ronnewmexico wrote:Think it coincidence each financial crisis is also included with a crisis of social services....no it is plan.

True
ronnewmexico wrote:Social security in the US for instance is fully funded until 2025 yet the common perception is that it is in crisis....it is not by any means considered.
You have to ask yourself american....why do you think such as thing?....you are indoctrinated to think such a thing as you are indoctrinated to think governments are unable to run social service programs..

I certainly would not want a corporation running social security, but government run social security is not an ideal solution. However, I do not claim to have a better solution, so let it be.
ronnewmexico wrote:Back to Charles Dickens time we are...let me tell you before governments did such things as provide social services...it was neither pretty nor polite the world they lived in. Charity and private enterprise do not fill the gap.

True, life was much harder then, and "the good old days" really aren't.
ronnewmexico wrote:New Zealand....I'd guess there is such a thing going on as described. Do not doubt it is true. Is that worth canning the program? I know that is not stated but will occur the question.....

In the US it is all pretty much with some exceptions, such as state run programs in new mexico pay as you go.
40 to 70k runs the dept for advanced education beyond higb schools...many can simply not afford to pursue it and have that consequent debt load.
So no qualified educated workers...the corporations outsource....New Zealand or other place may have a educated qualified work force.

It is not my place to say one way or another what New Zealand does, but I wish the US did more to offer HS grads $ grants for going to college, not just the exceptional ones, but anyone accepted into an accredited university. The US is not graduating nearly as many engineers and scientists among its population as it should be, and its people suffer because they do not have a university education.
ronnewmexico wrote:Why not free education..what reason under the sun...the US was the leader many many years ago in providing free education up to high school..quite revolutionary at the time government should do such a thing.
Now most do and quite a few much more.
MOre educated is the society more the society produces, the higher is the standard of living and the less crime there is.... always.

Agree, a free university bachelors degree would make the people of the US more competitive in the world, provided most people don't waste their time getting a degree for a segment of the job market that is flooded with too many qualified applicants.

We seem to agree on many issues. However, it is necessary to view things as they really are, not as I would like them. Therefore, I try to look at several sides of the issues, especially corporate viewpoints since they are powerful. Unfortunately, their perspective is not as I would like it to be. Overpopulation and automation have some negative effects on the lives of people, especially those who are under-educated. And, I fear, things will get much worse for many many people.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:24 pm

I don't get social security, and when I do get to a eligible age.... will only get a token amount not worth even mentioning.

So I don't have really a dog in that fight but I trade, my profession when I am making money, a hobby when not :smile:
Hobby now :crying: but only of the paper sort of loss real is gain.

That aside no corporation could run a program such as social security with the degree of efficiency that it does run.
I could research it but flying by the seat of my pants from research years ago..it is a very very efficient program
Frauds and such occuring in a singular basis..certainly, but they are manageing enormous amounts of money each month with a enormous amount of clientiel and potential cliential...the numbers are simply mind boggling.
And...this is a social program run by the federal government. It may be excluded as such only by those that want to so qualify this playing field as any working program to be not included in such discussion but only nonworking programs or those run inefficiently.
So they define the playing field they define the outcome...the conclusion we only can reasonably make.
New Mexico runs student scholorships up the the bachelors level and it is well run and provides the bulk of the educations expense of students at no cost.It is a scholorship program but most hard working students qualify easily.

My dog in this fight...any increased perception of the destruction of the program or insolvencey(which is certainly not the case at present)...and americans save not spend. As they save not spend the economy 70% directly american consumer related...decends.

Corporations think short term as per the necessity of stock and ownership.So short term money out of social security into the competing market...equities and bonds and they win...higher stock and bond prices.
Long term, decreased consumer spending as consequence the overall economy faulters.
Many do not invest in equities or bonds but (as in China) will go to gold or other asset (stuffec in mattresses) and the money drops out of the economy(the value of the money). Flow of money is lost..spelling decreased economic production as decreased credit is available.
So longer term we loose....with no social security, all of us.

This is why china with one of the highest savings rates in the world (often now held in gold just recently allowed)...has as long term plan the desire to add a social security program. To spark domestic consumption.

Peoples don't know corporations are predators upon things and have no country nor peoples of alligence. Their alligence is to their owners(stockholders often) and short term are thusly their opinions.
Not disregard their opinions...but consider them only in context.

All large corporations are diverting out of the US(very gradually) and into china..it is simply a more favorable environment for upticking of thngs.
Here they propose what would destroy...... there they have not that possibility so environmrnt thusly is more favorable long term.

Not to get to techincal but corporations will through new instruments(since the late 90's) bet against governments and win when they loose. Credit defaulat swaps are the instruments, naked swaps.
Corporations thusly are strangly for the first time in history at a point where betting against a governments success is to their financial interest.
They make money if a government fails as goldman held swaps on greek debt.
The US is not immune to this...corproations may actually want governments to fail............ they have interest to do so.
I can get more specific but it gets complicated.

this is greenspans great errror that he does not still admit or know of...goldman made money through the naked swaps on the default of subprime..it was to their interest to write the loans that they knew would fail...they did exactly that.
They and other....corporations have no interest in policiing themselves....swaps removes the need to see things not fail.
It is a new environment.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby edearl » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:00 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:I don't get ... It is a new environment.

I am an engineer, and am basically ignorant about economics and government. My education is mainly from listening to the news, which is often biased and always a few sentences instead of an educational series. I know US politics and government is a mess because of bickering between the parties, because some politicians are corrupt, and because most law makers are overwhelmed by thousands of pages of legislation. But, usually bureaucracies are effective regardless of inefficiencies, mistakes, and incredibly complex laws that continually change. I can gripe about things, but have no magic bullet.

The more I gripe, the more I suffer. Better to :meditate:

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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:08 pm

WE owe it to our democracy to be educated to issues.

It cannot be avoided or we accumulate karma which will have us in a later lifetime as human born in a nation that inexplcibly has its peoples bombed and killed at times by another nation, for no known reason..at least none that we may know of.... :smile:

So we hazard that if we be ignorant of our government of in this case our corporation which in america are the government..

We must all know what credit default swaps and naked swaps are. The money flow in such instruments dwarf all governmental economies.
And they are new since the 90's never before on earth.
We do not know and apply economies and economic models which do not contain such things and inexplicibly as with greenspan..find things are turning out ...all wrong :toilet:

Not to be overly dramatic but the reality is they will cause starvation misallocation of resources and consequently kill....large numbers of people left unregulated. Which largly they are. Not as large but still large.

Naked swaps allow you to basically buy fire insurance on your neighbors house...EVentually that causes a increase in fires of homes if allowed, specifically your neighbors...that is a known consequence of a unknown thing of doing. AS insurance companies, having interest that there be no fires do not allow such things.
Goldman and them...are not in the insurance business. Nor is their interest those of those that own a home upon which they may buy this insurance.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby Thug4lyfe » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:07 am

All the Corporate crime are very true. Greed just build on itself. However, blaming corporate greed is a very good scapegoat for many young people to excuse their bad behaviour.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby ronnewmexico » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:42 am

No crime about it at all. One may legally buy fire insurance upon ones neighbors house in this world of finance.

All quite legal and proper..when it comes crashing down,which it will ,then perhaps illegal.
Till then we watch and wait.

When not if.
Warren Buffet one of the richest men in the world and the CEo of Burkshire Hathaway, stated some years back, of these new unregulated vehicles(CDo's Swaps and all the rest).....weapons of financial mass destruction he called them....not far off the mark that.

Third richest man in the world speaks on matters he knows a bit about like insurance...one may care to listen.
Or not at your peril.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby Heruka » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:55 am

Food_Eatah wrote:All the Corporate crime are very true. Greed just build on itself. However, blaming corporate greed is a very good scapegoat for many young people to excuse their bad behaviour.



globalist monopoly bankers have co-opted your government, your democracy is nothing more than a ceremonial theater for your good guy/bad guy entertainment.
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby edearl » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:07 pm

Heruka wrote:
Food_Eatah wrote:All the Corporate crime are very true. Greed just build on itself. However, blaming corporate greed is a very good scapegoat for many young people to excuse their bad behaviour.



globalist monopoly bankers have co-opted your government, your democracy is nothing more than a ceremonial theater for your good guy/bad guy entertainment.

Unfortunately, bankers are not the only ones that have co-opted the US government, all big corporations fund their favorite politicians, and the supreme court has upheld the practice. It will take a constitutional amendment (difficult or impossible) to eliminate it. Most people seem to think fighting against abortion, science education, illegal immigrants, drug addicts, social programs, or war on terrorism is far more important; thus, people have many favorite political causes.

Now that unemployment is around 9%, many have banded together to demand jobs and some are actively protesting against wall-street, but it seems they have not made the connection between the bad-economy and other factors, such as their favorite political causes and corporate control of politicians.

IDK about much about other countries in this regard.
HHDL: "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims."
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby Jikan » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:38 am

Sheesh.

Frodo lost the ring after all.
Need help getting on retreat? Want to support others in practice? Pay the Dana for Dharma forum a visit...

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=13727
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Re: Greed in New Zealand

Postby Huifeng » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:00 am

Most curious is how many posters seem to act as though NZ was a state (or maybe just a county) of the US of A.

Sorry for the meta-discussion, but read the topic title, people!

~~ Huifeng
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