Obama's Left "Humanitarian" War.

[Heruka]

[Malcolm]

Can't be very left if Kucinich is criticizing it.

[Heruka]

i dont care for dennis politic, but sometimes hes sharp as a laser on the issues.

so Obama playing the centrist?

only giving the left the cover of humanitarian speak, which was my point in post one.

[Malcolm]

:rolling:

i dont care for dennis politic, but sometimes hes sharp as a laser on the issues.

so Obama playing the centrist?

only giving the left the cover of humanitarian speak, which was my point in post one.

Obama is very right wing, from where I sit. Kucinich is very moderately left. Bernie Sanders is more my cup of tea.

The truth of the matter is that American politics is all right wing. Just shades of conservatism.

What we really need is a deep green awakening. Not this namby pampy green capitalist bullshit.

M

[Adamantine]

deep green awakening

[Caz]

What would a deep Green awakening entail ?

[gregkavarnos]

What would a deep Green awakening entail ?

This does it for me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_ecology ,especially the social ecology of Murray Bookchin.

[Caz]

What would a deep Green awakening entail ?

This does it for me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_ecology ,especially the social ecology of Murray Bookchin.

Cheers Greg seems to be an interesting concept shall have futher read later.

[Malcolm]

What would a deep Green awakening entail ?

This does it for me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_ecology ,especially the social ecology of Murray Bookchin.

Check out David Orton's Left Bio Centrism Primer:

Left Biocentrism Primer
March 15, 1998

The following Primer is a result of a protracted collective discussion among a numer of those who support left biocentrism and deep ecology.

- Left biocentrism is a left focus or theoretical tendency within the deep ecology movement, which is subversive of the existing industrial society. It accepts and promotes the eight-point Deep Ecology Platform drawn up by Arne Naess and George Sessions. Left biocentrism holds up as an ideal, identification, solidarity, and compassion with all life. "Left" as used in left biocentrism, means anti- industrial and anti-capitalist, but not necessarily socialist. The expressions 'left biocentrism' or 'left ecocentrism' are used interchangeably.

- Left biocentrism accepts the view that the Earth belongs to no one. While raising a number of criticisms, left biocentrism is meant to strengthen, not undermine, the deep ecology movement which identifies with all life.

- Left biocentrism says that individuals must take responsibility for their actions and be socially accountable. Part of being individually responsible is to practice voluntary simplicity, so as to minimize one's own impact upon the Earth.

- Left biocentrists are concerned with social justice and class issues, but within a context of ecology. To move to a deep ecology world, the human species must be mobilized, and a concern for social justice is a necessary part of this mobilization. Left biocentrism is for the redistribution of wealth, nationally and internationally.

- Left biocentrism opposes economic growth and consumerism. Human societies must live within ecological limits so that all other species may continue to flourish. We believe that bioregionalism, not globalism, is necessary for sustainability. The perspective of the late German Green philosopher Rudolf Bahro is accepted that, for world-wide sustainability, industrialized countries need to reduce their impact upon the Earth to about one tenth of what it is at the present time. It is also incumbent upon non- industrialized nations to become sustainable and it is necessary for industrialized nations to help on this path.

- Left biocentrism holds that individual and collective spiritual transformation is important to bring about major social change, and to break with industrial society. We need inward transformation, so that the interests of all species override the short-term self-interest of the individual, the family, the community, and the nation.

- Left biocentrism believes that deep ecology must be applied to actual environmental issues and struggles, no matter how socially sensitive, e.g. population reduction, aboriginal issues, workers' struggles, etc.

- Social ecology, eco-feminism and eco-marxism, while raising important questions, are all human-centered and consider human-to-human relations within society to be more important and, in the final analysis, determine society's relationship to the natural world. Left biocentrism believes that an egalitarian, non-sexist, non-discriminating society, a highly desirable goal, can still be exploitive towards the Earth.

- Left biocentrists are "movement greens" in basic orientation. They are critical of existing Green political parties, which have come to an accommodation with industrial society and have no accountability to the deep ecology movement.

- To be politically relevant, deep ecology needs to incorporate the perspective advanced by left biocentrism.

David Orton
Coordinator, Green Web
R.R. #3 Saltsprings, Nova Scotia, Canada B0K 1P0
greenweb@fox.nstn.ca

[Caz]

Thank you Namdrol that is insightful I shall have a futher look.

[gregkavarnos]

To set things straight, I consider myself a social ecologist. I want to say that just because social ecologists believe that to foster an ecological consciousness one must first work on human social and political relations doesn't mean it is anthropocentric (human centred). If it stopped at that (like socialists, communists and social anarchists do) and did not look to apply the altered social and political relations in order to foster an ecological standpoint within society then it would be anthropocentric. It looks to me as though Mr Orton just wants to have his social movement of one person and exclude all others from a (possible) shared vision of what ecological consciousness is.

[Su DongPo]

Obama isn't the problem, imo. He may not be the solution, but there are worse politicians, as we have seen in more recent decades.

[Heruka]

green peace co-founder patrick moore lamented that the group had been co-opted by hardcore communists, hell bent on shutting down western industry and resources.

also still waiting for clear empirical data to show anthropogenic global warming is a real issue. the earth in past times has had much greater c02 levels than at present, and life in those times exploded in variation scope and size since c02 consumed by plant life and release oxygen. the carbon cycle on earth can handle massive c02 out gassing from volcanoes, on the scale many times that of human activity.

carbon monoxide however is a different animal.

[Malcolm]

green peace co-founder patrick moore lamented that the group had been co-opted by hardcore communists, hell bent on shutting down western industry and resources.

also still waiting for clear empirical data to show anthropogenic global warming is a real issue. the earth in past times has had much greater c02 levels than at present, and life in those times exploded in variation scope and size since c02 consumed by plant life and release oxygen. the carbon cycle on earth can handle massive c02 out gassing from volcanoes, on the scale many times that of human activity.

carbon monoxide however is a different animal.

CO2 is only one of the greenhouse gases -- there are many others more pernicious.

[Heruka]

having studied planetary science as an undergraduate, and using wiens displacement law, and using s.i. units and black body radiation wavelength peak data of surface temps emission spectrum, i find no significance for runaway greenhouse emissions, but earths reflected radiation sits in the infrared, i.e. it radiates more heat into space than trapped by greenhouse gas.

[Heruka]

CO2 is only one of the greenhouse gases -- there are many others more pernicious.

can you site sources for this.

thanks

[Heruka]

you see key word is emission, not absorption.

[Malcolm]

CO2 is only one of the greenhouse gases -- there are many others more pernicious.

can you site sources for this.

thanks

Sulfur hexafluoride, for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_hex ... nhouse_gas

[gregkavarnos]

green peace co-founder patrick moore lamented that the group had been co-opted by hardcore communists, hell bent on shutting down western industry and resources.

Damn green-commies (red and green together, that would make a nasty shade of pooh brown right?), always f*****g up the program of merciless profit generation at the expense of global well-being!
Should be shot! Or sent to Gulags!

[Malcolm]

green peace co-founder patrick moore lamented that the group had been co-opted by hardcore communists, hell bent on shutting down western industry and resources.

Damn green-commies (red and green together, that would make a nasty shade of pooh brown right?), always f*****g up the program of merciless profit generation at the expense of global well-being!
Should be shot! Or sent to Gulags!

The proper term is "watermelons" -- green on the outside, red on the inside.