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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:21 am 
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Heruka wrote:
Tilopa wrote:
BTW if what he has done is so wrong what about the editors of the newspapers who print the leaked material. Are they any less culpable? No one seems to be calling for their incarceration or assassination.



the task group (wikileaks) presented the cables to the whitehouse weeks before release, the outlets (media) were, and known approved gov intel bedfellows, since the beginning, journalism and intel have been working together, again something you can research yourself, look for the symbols of owls and secret societies etc. the material leaked has already been looked over by the whitehouse and with redactions and ommisions made to material, been made public. you are seeing watered down, sanitized material.


Pass the bong :D


Last edited by Tilopa on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:23 am 
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ronnewmexico wrote:
The tool used seem to be pretty typical agent associate material, at least of what we know of one of them.
Mentally unstable, able thusly to be utilized, questionable backround with possible prior interactions with Johnny Law and thus vulnerable to direction....I'd guess it points to a actual operation in Assanges direction by the spooks. A thing to use if things in their eyes went wrong, which it has and they have.




i agree,

spot on.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:28 am 
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This stuff is so strange it could easily be a movie, or hallucination. Such is the world of spooks. What seems real is not what is real is considered fantasy.

Agenda...its all about agenda. Who holds it and why. Know that, you know it all.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:31 am 
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in the land of the blind....

the one eyed man is king................


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:41 am 
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Funny how things work and have unintended consequences....due to the 1005 plus replicated sites, Wikileaks is about the fastest prompt anywhere on the internet right now.

I have to admit....I donated myself today. All this activity I feel like being at a sideline at a good ball game. Want to participate if you know what I mean.

I did coincidentally buy a Chinese Yuan denominated issue today playing on the anticipated chinese rate increase.....I'd suppose I am implicated :smile:
Have to sell it.... which I will do....:smile: after the weekend however.

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"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.


Last edited by ronnewmexico on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:44 am 
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i buy physical silver lakota indian nation rounds on the commodities to stick it to the man....



:rolling:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:51 am 
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You can vote for Julian Assange in Time Magazines Person of the Year poll:

www.time.com/time/specials/packages/art ... 27,00.html


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:55 am 
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The man is collecting taxes on any appreciation of precious metals at years end however.
About 28% on those.

Discourageing the holding of gold and silver here in the states at least.
For reason...always for reason. Rosevelt outlawed the ownership of gold for a time in the great depression. These guys just make it inconvient...modus operandi.

Minting charges kill the profit anyway. I've switched to the miners. EtF's for precious metals are closely watched by the brokerage firms...and seemingly reported. Everything is nowadays..
Soros....they'd kill him if they could with his history. One false misstep...but he never makes a one.

Man of the year....thanks that's great.
Wikileaks replicant sites seem mostly European based to my uneducated view.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:39 am 
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Excellent article here:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-133629 ... -hunt.html


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:54 pm 
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I'm disinclined to trust the Daily Mail, but if that article is correct, then Assange simply fell for one of these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clandestin ... ecruitment

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:46 pm 
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Tilopa wrote:
You can vote for Julian Assange in Time Magazines Person of the Year poll:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packa ... 27,00.html

Why? He'll go to prison and 5 to 10 years from now, he'll be forgotten.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:18 pm 
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It is not equilivent.... as Assange did not actually release the information and is simply a media person fraciiltiating the release....but Daniel Ellsberg 30 years later is still remembered as being the starting impetus on the march away from war that was the Vietnamese conflict. That to include the supreme court decision which allowed the immunity from prosecution to the NY Times for facilitating the release of the Pentagon papers did establish legal precedent and will be and are actually quite noted in any history of the era.

Could be found those in the days of the Pentagon papers release,(it was quite common really) who found them insignificant and also in the days of watergate the writings of Woodward and Bernstein also insignificant. IN retrospect we were at that time living throough events which were world shaking and changing of courses of nations that persist today.

When incidents of significant of a political nature present they do not have banners and flags identifying them as such. The touching of all aspects of governmental operations in a global diplomatic sense and the affirmation of things thought only to be conspiracy theorists domain attest to this as being one of those times....sans flags bells and whistles identifying it as such.

News from the trenches...apparently hackers have issued denial of service issues to the credit card sites who have restricted Wikileaks accounts.....If nothing else this is quite a interesting cyber war we get to see first hand and very rarely pretty out in the open. I expect the replicant sites put up by supporters to stop the governmental inspired cyber attacks have grown and will update.

Master card is down and has been for several hours. The group putting it down has no alligence to Wikileaks but is acting independently and has claimed it is in response to the actions upon Wikileaks.
I warned earlier in this threa such disruptions may occur. They have.....more to come I suspect.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:13 pm 
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1299.....1299 replicant sites now exist to thwart the governmental inspired cyber attacks.

From 200, to 300 to 1000, to 1300
water cannot be squashed at the heel of a boot.

As a aside of sorts a brief situation that speaks of how misinformation is dessimated. A supposed proponant of Wikileaks was in a debate of sorts on CNN(three against one for). She stated in her discussion that she as a result of amazons action(which were in response to a request from Senator Joe Lieberman it is rumored).....and others can not access Wikileaks.

IN fact it is probably the rapidest promp on the internet right now due to the amount of the replicated sites. Google or Yahoo would be hard pressed due to conflicts on the same issue of free press in China to stop it on their end.

But that a cyberwar is going on is not even acknowledged in the national media excepting when it has to be as with Mastercard. It is just to obvious.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:45 am 
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Another good newspaper article:

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentat ... 54109.html


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:03 am 
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ronnewmexico wrote:
It is not equilivent.... as Assange did not actually release the information and is simply a media person fraciiltiating the release....but Daniel Ellsberg 30 years later is still remembered as being the starting impetus on the march away from war that was the Vietnamese conflict. That to include the supreme court decision which allowed the immunity from prosecution to the NY Times for facilitating the release of the Pentagon papers did establish legal precedent and will be and are actually quite noted in any history of the era.

Could be found those in the days of the Pentagon papers release,(it was quite common really) who found them insignificant and also in the days of watergate the writings of Woodward and Bernstein also insignificant. IN retrospect we were at that time living throough events which were world shaking and changing of courses of nations that persist today.

When incidents of significant of a political nature present they do not have banners and flags identifying them as such. The touching of all aspects of governmental operations in a global diplomatic sense and the affirmation of things thought only to be conspiracy theorists domain attest to this as being one of those times....sans flags bells and whistles identifying it as such.

News from the trenches...apparently hackers have issued denial of service issues to the credit card sites who have restricted Wikileaks accounts.....If nothing else this is quite a interesting cyber war we get to see first hand and very rarely pretty out in the open. I expect the replicant sites put up by supporters to stop the governmental inspired cyber attacks have grown and will update.

Master card is down and has been for several hours. The group putting it down has no alligence to Wikileaks but is acting independently and has claimed it is in response to the actions upon Wikileaks.
I warned earlier in this threa such disruptions may occur. They have.....more to come I suspect.



I'm not sure if the credit card companies or Paypal had a choice if they define Wikileaks as illegal, but again I'm not sure that anyone has proved that yet, least of all the Governments whose own illegal, stupid and immoral acts are slowly being exposed.

However, action which makes it clear that these financial institutions are not immune from protest is worthwhile. Protests on the streets are not nearly as effective as disruption of their business. Let's hope they listen to the public who are, after all, their customers and can refuse to use the services of these banks.

One of the hackers quoted in the UK's Daily Mail:

''Yesterday a spokesman for Anonymous, calling himself ‘Coldblood’, a 22-year-old computer programmer based in London, said: ‘Websites that are bowing down to government pressure have become targets.

'As an organisation we have always taken a strong stance on censorship and freedom of expression on the internet and come out against those who seek to destroy it by any means.

‘We feel that WikiLeaks has become more than just about leaking of documents, it has become a war ground, the people versus the government.

‘The idea is not to wipe them off but to give the companies a wake-up call.’

In a further communique online, Anonymous warned: ‘We will fire at anything or anyone that tries to censor WikiLeaks, including multibillion-dollar companies such as PayPal.’

The spokesman added that the group’s intention ‘was to be a force for chaotic good’.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... 7bjuR9VC''

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:43 pm 
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Coincideentally the suspensions of Wikileaks from Master Card and Visa coincide with just released documents that have the state department of the US approacing the Russian government to influence legislation in Russia which would impact Master Card and Visa.

One of the hackers has released a couple of thousand credit card numbers seemingly to show the companies they have abiities to do much more, than they are.

All probably know now very many sites have been attacked and damaged by the hackers in response. The attackes against Wikileaks, some so large them must have government inspiration and assistance continue as well.

Paypal has stated they received a letter from the government requesting they stop the useage by Wikileaks of their services. Not a charge has been filled against Wikileaks b any government(as of yet) to substantiate any of the actions by various corporate sponsors. It appears senator Liebermans office was resposible for the amazon drop.

Daniel Ellsberg states in his most recent blog signed by very many "heros" in the spook field, such tactics were all employed against him and the NYTimes back in the day. So many illegal in fact it was why the government could not win the case against him...they wanted 110 years. So illegal was the responses by the government....the charges could not stick.

So the war continues.
Interestingly a just released document has the Nigerian government being part and parcel of Shell oil. A assumed state prior, now concluded.

The releases are in drips and drabs not in a dump (as the media falsely claim) to enable redacting by the five newspapers also releasing the information. This so unnecessary or potentially harmful items will not see the light of day.

Its strange the newspapers are not having cyber attacks constraints on their credit cards and such things on them as they release at the same time as Wikileaks, and are cooperating with Wikileaks in the releases.

In any even the cyberwar goes on.The national and global news services have to cover it as it is so large and impacting so many differing things. The first public cyber war before our eyes.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:13 am 
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Here's what Daniel Ellsberg has to say about Wikileaks. (NB: Ellsberg blew the whistle on the US's dirty war in Cambodia, among other things, with his leak of the Pentagon Papers in 1971) --



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:20 am 
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ronnewmexico wrote:
In any even the cyberwar goes on.The national and global news services have to cover it as it is so large and impacting so many differing things. The first public cyber war before our eyes.


I said something similar to my wife last night. Not sure this is the first (even with the limitation to "public") such "war". There have been several earlier high-profile instances, e.g. involving China & Google; and North Korea (maybe) and government sites in the US, Japan, and South Korea, but this is certainly the most dramatic and perhaps the largest struggle for information via the web in "the West", in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:25 am 
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Here's what I expect to happen with the material made available so far by WikiLeaks. We'll get two kinds of outcomes (or a spectrum between two poles if you will):

On one side, stories like this one:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs ... helped.php

Significant, in other words.

On the other side, you get material like this:

http://wonkette.com/432187/wikileaks-ca ... econd-term

(mind you, wonkette is primarily a humor site, but as Twain is said to have deadpanned, comedy is very serious business.) It's an insight into the bureaucratic life and not much more. Banality of cables.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:28 am 
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DOOM!!!
DOOM!!!
DOOM!!!

they seemed to say.

All the while, the fox was in the henhouse counting his chickens as the principle of the matter left the building and all who was left was the superintendent, who was a greedy self-absorbed pancake of a man...

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” – 1984 (Orwell)

I could write some good fictional plotlines for my writing exercises with the material from some of these posts, interesting thread.

So why if it is happening does it involve us? Why do we even need an opinion on something we're led wrongly by, the "facts" that are given by whom? Follow the money. Isn't that what Nixon said?

Who cares if the messenger (Assange) doesn't agree with the popular political aesthetic, let's find out who this messenger is and why they we're being scammed into paying so much attention to him? Like, why are you guys so interested in this spectacle? It's a farce. Lies upon lies, but something make you so smart you can figure it out?

Good luck with Google and "the media," there is little free press left. Everything is owned by series of stakeholders with key interests in some platform that always comes down to a business deal. They dress it in morals and tangential views that detract the energy of the public focus to the elephant in the room. Create enough noise, you make distractions, by cause and effect. What's really changed with these leaks? Really?

It seems a lot of things change but basically it stays the same. It's something that sometimes I feel the weight of in my career in marketing. Amazing to see the gears turn on a micro-level with corporate execs having lunches and favors translate into policy changes for the workers in the lowest ranks, from the benefits to pay, it's a bunch of self-interested people having coffee and scotch in nice suites, and those who can make a difference are mostly concerned with their own interest. At the end of the day, the motto is "what's in it for me" (abbreviated WIIFM) and the only way get that is to show what you've done for them lately. It's a classic problem as was put in previous post. Problem, reaction, solution.

I was in a meeting last week where I was told, if the question ever casts a doubt in your mind, the answer is always "Money." If it generates revenue, do it.

The problem is 98% of the US population has painfully been experiencing the effects of having to share some 3% of the national wealth. Did the people think what, they were important? The culture thought or emotionally attached to the idea that it "had" (possessed) a lot more than it actually does. How is it that Wallstreet had its BEST day in history some 3 odd weeks ago, when there are people who can't eat in this country.

Yet the problem's always been this way, those who have and those who don't, and who decides who lives and who dies.

Now we have real death panels. In Arizona coverage of medical benefits for individuals on transplant lists get to be selected or removed according to who? The brilliant governor of Arizona. A man was sent home from his operating table he'd been on a list to get a transplant a long time. The insurance dropped him and the hospital sent him home to die.

That's what this fine establishment was based on: greed. And the American Dream is the picture perfect greed in your own corner of heaven. And the pharma industry, wallstreet, it's intricately all connected, because there aren't that many people at the heights of that kind of wealth. It's kept close knit, and greed is the name of the game for happiness. Can you see how happy the American people are with their nice iPods and gizmos and therapy and medications? I can. They are pissed and hurting to just make rent, forget christmas trees and family warmth. People are unequipped to deal with this, but it doesn't change they have to deal with it nonetheless.

But that logic alone is pretty insane, when you stop and think about it, what people keep grasping for, even from the media, and in the media.

So why is Assange such a big deal again? It's not like government officials don't know what the espionage game is... they ARE the experts. And it is their work to smooth over the perceptions of other people dressed in their finest that decide policy for their citizens. Who cares if 1 in 5 people doesn't have clean drinking water in this world, WIIFM?

Even this much attention to this matter shows this principle in its end result.

So what have you done for me lately? This is the first question I have to always answer when negotiating "What's in it for me", basic business... but at a human level, it's the basic principle that all politics seem to work on.

My 2 cents.

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