Wikileaks..Julian Asange.....

[ronnewmexico]

Those in the know may know a war of sorts is being engaged. The US government has attacked with cyber forces the site of Wikileaks, to prevent dessimanation of thousands of secret documents of a global diplomatic nature. Amazon has stopped carrying the site in the US and the donation mechanism has had sudden governmental interference to stop donations.

In response the hacking community has issued a call to arms of sorts establishing by last count at least 250 exact replicants of the Wiki sites to confound the attack and have started attacks of their own on sites they consider complicit in these attacks and on the perceived side of the attackers of Wikileaks.

So a internet war of sorts is now engaged. Many wars of this sort have been engaged in the past by government against government but most all are never publicized. Most recently a worm of sorts was issued against Iranian nuclear related computer sites. One of many by both sides in this thing. China perhaps being most notorious in sheer numbers of attacks.

JUlian Asange is being subject to a interpol arrest warrent, of sexual assault possibly rape, which most seem to doubt any shread of authenticity. He has had various govenmental officials globally call for his assination and if caught a death sentence. Laws in the US are being proposed to enhance terrorism classification and treason classification so they may apply to Mr Assange and Wikileaks. Wikileaks is to be considered a terrorist organization if one senator from the US has his way.

The US government is endeavoring this in only the intent of squashing information which has already been published by several global newpapers to include the NYTimes.

This stuff is so strange and bizzare it seems almost a paranoid rant but this is actually happening right here and now. Don't take my word on it a simple search reveals it.Though I'd suggest Glen Greenwald on Salon. com gives a quick take most correctly to my personal view.

In a religious context... imagine perhaps the consequences of anything that really strikes at the status quo. What would be that response....a religion or belief structure that really did put status quo into question.....

This is only over secret information and status quo on that issue. Imagine perhaps if there ever were a threat....status quo wise to things as they are.
The response I would guess would be quite astounding as is the US governmental response to this really not as significant a issue.

Coincidentally Assange is a Australian citizen. Preliminary feedback seems to infer he will be subject to immediate arrest if he returns there. UK is where he is now. Not in hiding from authorities which so far at least in the UK don't wish to arrest him despite the interpol warrent, but in hiding due to the threats by global governmental officials calling for his summary assination.

You couldn't make this stuff up...it is just so bizzare.

On a side note...not surpriseingly all the authoritarian nations(at least those we normally consider to be so)....have completely censored Wikileaks, and these releases, China, Saudi Arabia , just mentioning two but there are many.
Even Al Jazeera took a hit on the released information. But they are not censoring its release but reporting on it.

Could any site be subject to attack for such mere mention of such things...I wonder?

To backround a bit Wikileaks Assange and all them.....rooted in the hacking community way way back.
I personally wondered when that community would respond. That they did and are is no surprise seemingly. That it is reported at all is a surprise. A war it is of sorts right before our very eyes.
It could get quite interesting. Wikileaks next target was to be the financial community(to be released next month) rumored to be Bank of America. I would be very surprised if no unexpected outages of various sort occur this week. Reported that will not be.

Some conjecture the reason for the governmental push back and call for assinations is not governmental push back but financial corporate push back as none of this happened with the initial releases only after the corporate target was announced ....I wonder?

Take of course all of this with a grain of salt....all here surely know quite truly.....nothing stated here finally considered..... really exists. And the writer....certainly subject to delusion of many sundry sort.

[Su DongPo]

How do you know the US government is attacking the wikileaks site and not some other government? -- or even a non-governmental/state source? Can you cite specific evidence, or are you speculating?
Wikileaks has not spared anyone, as far as I can tell.

[Indrajala]

I fully support Wikileaks.

They're revealing to the whipped and exploited masses just how corrupt global diplomacy is and moreover the quality of most governments and their respective leaders.

Assange has stated that next year Wikileaks will publish the private files of a major US bank. He said it could bring down one or two major banks in the US.

This is actually the optimal way to fight corrupt governments: hang out their dirty laundry for all to see. No bullets need to be fired at all. Nobody needs to be killed. This is all done through disobedience to tyrants and non-violent means. Evil leaders can be taken out of power just through empowering the masses with accurate knowledge.

For Buddhists non-violence is extremely important. If Wikileaks advocated violence I would not support them, but they have never advocated violence against anyone (on the contrary however many leaders and well known people are calling for violence against them).

[Tilopa]

WIKILEAKS..........keeping democracy safe.

Julian Assange is a hero.

[Lazy_eye]

I don't support it. It's similar to hacking an internet forum and publishing the contents of private discussions among the moderators. Or posting hacked PMs for everyone on the forum to see.

It's theft and therefore Wrong Action, maybe also Wrong Speech. Doesn't magically become right because the BBUSG (big bad US government) was the target.

The main impact of Wikileaks is likely to be that governments will become even more paranoid and secretive, and diplomacy will be harder to conduct because diplomats will self-censor and be afraid to engage in candid discussions. So there won't be any gain in terms of transparency, nor will it help resolve conflicts or achieve world peace. Governments will simply behave the way people do when their private information gets hacked -- they'll become more fearful, put controls in place, and stay away from channels that they deem insecure.

Diplomacy may be corrupt and often suck, but the alternatives are a lot worse.

LE

[Indrajala]

It's theft and therefore Wrong Action, maybe also Wrong Speech. Doesn't magically become right because the BBUSG (big bad US government) was the target.

Not really -- the intention is to reveal corruption and war mongering which could in the end save countless lives. It also could work for strengthening environmental protection against corrupted politicians and big business.

[Lazy_eye]

Not really -- the intention is to reveal corruption and war mongering which could in the end save countless lives. It also could work for strengthening environmental protection against corrupted politicians and big business.

Are you sure you know what Mr. Assange's intentions were?

[ground]

I agree that one should maintain a critical attitude towards both sides.
"Both sides" means also that one should probe the consequences of Wikileaks activities: Does it harm? Does it help? What kind of information does help and what kind does harm?
Where is the borderline between mere denigrative sensationalism and information that supports respect, human rights and world peace?

Kind regards

[Mr. G]

If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.
- H. L. Mencken

[Jikan]

I agree that one should maintain a critical attitude towards both sides.
"Both sides" means also that one should probe the consequences of Wikileaks activities: Does it harm? Does it help? What kind of information does help and what kind does harm?
Where is the borderline between mere denigrative sensationalism and information that supports respect, human rights and world peace?

This.

I'm interested to see what happens when WikiLeaks distributes the material from inside the corporate world (particularly banking and finance) they are rumored to possess. How will the response differ? What are the consequences?

[ronnewmexico]

News from the front....

The number of replicant sites has (rumor has it) rising to 350 plus. ONe of the accusers of Assange is (rumor has it) tied to a right wing group known to be in the past affiliated with the CIA. The basis of the charges against Assanga rumor has it center upon consensual sex without a condum(Yikes!!).

Cyber attacks of the type and size that have been inspired by Wikileaks can only be inspired by large governments. History and pattern of attacks prior suggest this is inspired or directed, directly by the US government. Could another government or corporate agent be being utilized....certainly. Chinese cyber attacks against various parties always use remotely sourced apparatus which cannot be directly charged to the government. That it is the governments that are responsible, is pretty much beyond question.
If the statement made is a real question and not a attempt at agenda it is answered.
You have likely never even heard such things as these are going on and have been going on in governmental circles from both sides for years now since it is mainly not reported. Cyber attacks worms viruses et all, part and parcel of the modern world, governments one against another and ideologs one against another, of all sort and description.

Regarding the point of information being released.....those in democracies have a responsibility to find out exactly what is the state of things so they may make informed decisions in the voting. Without real information wrong decisions become predictable. The US government has instituted a policy of secrecy which in many cases not a case of actual need for security(all these releases of Wikileaks have not yet resulted in one death as the files are redacted prior to publishing). The secret nature of much is because of the fact knowledge is power. The restriction of knowledge is hence a restriction on who holds power and how it may be exercised.So hence transparancy is paramount to a democracy and protects its viability.

Wikileaks is not the actual inception of the articles/documentations being presented but a conduit of information from those who have access. The conduit in this case also includes very many global newpapers to include the NYTimes. All were redacted prior to release by the newspapers and wikileaks is acting solely as media, in a media capacity. The individual responsible for the releases PFC Bradley Manning is already under arrest and has been held six months already without trial. All information presented by Wikileaks despite their hacking backround in this present issue, is derived from third party sources not hacked nor from hackers .

This is the same type of crap that arose around the release of the Pentagon papers to the NYTimes years ago. Daniel Ellsberg rumor has it was subject to a assination attempt by the US government at a political event he was attending just after the release. Eight agents were dispatched to perform this function but failed due to a inablility to get close enough to the target to deploy.

The two view on any issue idea....keep in mind those in Bosnia, Serbia, the Hitsu, the Titsu, Stalinistis, followers of IDI Amin(who peacefully died in Saudi Arabia of natural causes after being deposed).....all considered the two view idea. Keep in mind perhaps in some select cases a issue not of gray but of right or wrong..... what hurts people and what causes less hurt, truth as opposed to nontruth, not two equal view by the nature of being views... both then equal(a popular presently but gross misconception).

Don't take my word on any of this of course. Research it yourself extensively as I have and spend time with it. Don't just read a article even this one on any of this. Read a hundred articles, investigate Assange(his personal history is really quite entertaining), and the history of Wikileaks as I have....and then make a informed statement which will be then a equal view to any other.

Shoot from the hip without knowing the issue your opinion versed becomes not worth squat, useless, a exercise in ideology and ego only. As your vote without information, real information to back it, in a democracy is worth squat, nothing nada.....just a tool for others to employ, on the right and left.

WE must be informed it is absolutely essential. Wikileaks has in part enabled that.

[ground]

Don't take my word on any of this of course. Research it yourself extensively as I have and spend time with it. Don't just read a article even this one on any of this. Read a hundred articles, investigate Assange(his personal history is really quite entertaining), and the history of Wikileaks as I have....and then make a informed statement which will be then a equal view to any other.

Well ... life is short. Instead of getting poisoned by useless samsaric passions it may be better to study dharma and thus get to know what to engage in and what to cast aside and get to know the criteria with which to discern right and wrong.

Kind regards

[ronnewmexico]

unfortunately my karmic fate is to be born in a democracy and to continue to live in such by necessity.

As such the correct thing is.... to not abstain from my responsibility in a democracy and work not only on the spiritual but on the necessity to be informed.

The Buddha did not address conduct in democracies as none existed in that time and day and in Tibet from which I mainly draw my practice none also existed.

So we are left with a new circumstance which is not addressed. I am firmly held that to not generate negative karma a buddhist in a democracy must take the time and effort to know the state of things and vote or exercise in some manner this knowledge.
To not do so damages others in those democracies. I simply cannot sustain harm to others if it is clear harm will come regardless of personal detriment that it may effect from lesser devotion to the strictly spiritual.

To not do so would be unspiritual to my view. It is my view but view it is and not a arbitrary nor little considered one. Well studied it is.

Certainly for most all of us this must all be balanced. The need to be informed, the need to earn a living. More than one great spiritual master in Tibet was not a monk or in monestary but of diverse employ. One a small business owner, as were the manasiddhis.... diverse. So such is not impossible. WE all do not have to live as Millarepa but we were all perhaps not also evil enchanters as well in very recent prior times. Some of us were perhaps just assembly line workers such as oil pressers were in times past.

So it varies. Devotion to the spiritual seems it seems more important than how one actually spends their day. The responsibility to me to be informed in this democracy is quite clearly present and is my spiritual necessity. Of course we cannot go overboard in any thing excepting the spiritual.

It seems to be less and less obvious.... but in Tibet there were two sanga's or spiritual traditions, the Tulku, mainly nonmonastic and the monastic. As many Tulkus that were not monks had many many children and wives and property and things of that sort it is clear one may attain to the spiritual but not be a monastic, as great spiritual attainment many Tulkus exhibit. This is perhaps not as in some other Buddhist, Theravadan mainly, view. I am certainly just a uneducated layperson but their example leads me to believe one may balance such things of responsibility and still attain a bit of spiritual progress in this life.

Now it seems almost all Tulkus become monks or abandon their faith. That was not always so.

Personally the idea one may only emulate a Millareapa as opposed to a Naropa is a impediment(for me).
Perhaps it could be for others I don't know. It rises from a feeling we all have that we are inadequate to my opinion. I could easily devote all my time in wilderness and not in town or city, but that idea that one opposes the other is in fact for my eyes a lesser. It establishes a dichatomy when one is not naturally present. Both are employed in my personal practice and for cause as spiritual direction as my moniker attests. We cannot disallow our karmic present circumstance and responsibility however advanced spiritually we may consider ourselves to be, to my view. To do so would be at great hazard. Even those of great great attainment(which I obviously am not) in my practice are encouraged to conduct themselves as normal dharma practitioners after accomplishing their aim.
Though for them personally it serves little, it serves others.
So I have studied this.

The notion any passion is involved is actually quite presumptious. I may or may not have such things, The fact is no one here knows me nor my circumstance in this life, nor may past to make such determinations. One is simply unqualified.
The idea one must study dharma know such perfectly and then go make decisions on things and what to engage and not engage....life as they say waits for no one. These choices are here and now and people die as result, 600k in Iraq by most takes, per one singular example in this day of empire. How many in Tibet in prior years I really do not know.
We must not exclude either to my opinion, or suffer consequence.
We must be informed it is our responsibility our karmic fate in a democracy.

Next life a dictatorship...I will not have such responsibility.

[Heruka]

asanges face is everywhere, which means he is the public face of this unknown group called wikileaks. we do not know who funded and set up this group, the money could be russian, chinese, american... we simply dont know. what we can know is the drum beat for web censorship is growing louder and wikileaks is the perfect trojan horse to accomplish international governments wish to crack down on free speech. the interpol charges are fake and give wikileaks a street cred that is essential to the phys op's swallowability for public's consumption, that "something must be done"

problem, reaction, solution.

the oldest game in town.


ps google is a pentagon matrix, thats why china hacked it.

[ronnewmexico]

Well that is the latest smear. This now from ex ambassador Wilson who had a run in with the prior adminstration and had his wife's cover as a CIA field operative blown by the prior vice presidents staff, one of which complicit in the coverup, Scooter Libby was summarily released from jail upon conviction of the coverup charge by Bush.

A insider from the get go.....Wilson...how exactly would Wilson know that.... he nor his wife has had no connection to the intelligence services for years, since that event and most recently being completely involved with making a movie on his incident....sorry no doesn't pass the test.

There is not a shred of information that links Wikileaks with any outside government. It is banned in most other totalitarian nations. The loop from Bradley Manning to Wikileaks is undeniable, and that Bradley Manning had access to those emails and communications is also undeniably proven.

Wikileaks history is not unknown nor unknowable they have been around for roughly four years in their present form. Their history is readily accessible, as is the history of their main participants.

How would you protect yourself if you were the American government failing to kill the messenger and failing to stop the spread of information...you have to smear the individual most notable and smear the orgainzation....this smear is something new....released after all else fails. If is flies they will go with it, if not drop it like a hot stone....which is why Wilson was chosen.....he is a neutally percepted party who can be easily dropped.

So sorry Heruka....I know you have prior feelings about the Wiki site and Manning and Assange, but you cannot simply believe or expect to have believed this most current nonsense.

Almost ironic...they cannot claim one single individual has as of yet been harmed as result of the leaks(believe you me it would be summarily front page new everywhere).....and they trot out the husband of a CIA field operative who upon her outing undoubtably had as result many many murdered....but not a one reported on. As you may know any associate of a exposed field operative is assumed in a totalitarian regime to be complicit with the operative and summarily arrested tortured and usually terminated.

Not a word of that in the media.
Plenty of Wilson though.....

Assange may be arrested by the UK it seems to be going that way. Assange as you clearly correctly point out however is not Wikileaks just a main mover and spokesperson...but there are many.

Mote point really they can smear whoever they want, they do after all control the mass media, but the information just keeps coming out and will not stop. Bank of America BP are next on the docket......

Seemingly all major movers and governments are involved in this thing with all having a thing to hide. China by these documents just released is found to be gooseing their GDP numbers as many suspected, Al Jazeera a bargaining chip to be used to negotiate with...do this and we close it down, don't and we continue operation....just to mention two.....there are undoubtably thousands of similiar issues.

None of the players could inspire this...it is damageing to all. The emperors all...have no clothes.

Ecuador I think has offered asylum to Assange. I suspect if China is not to badly harmed by the releases other south american countries will as well...symbolic gesture though it is.

The real game behind all this and the real reason the opposition has gone way over the top may very well be the information on the corporations may really damage....some theorize.

If so as it has not stopped Wikileaks yet....it will get more and more strange I expect. All the CIA's gloves taken off, and every method employeed.
A crisis precipitated by secret informations at Bank of America considering the present economic climate and the recent tax breaks for the rich....would spell disastor for the powers that be.

This all of course empty of final real existance and thusly not of any import to anyone.
You really have to sift this stuff...the disinformation network is in high gear not taking any prisoners. All these tactics straight out of the spook manual however....easily predicted. I would not be surprised of a blanket arrest of all the Wikileaks players. That next would be my guess.

If however the other government inspired nonsense has legs...they produce a operative associate to claim knowledge and involvement. I doubt it has legs though.

Ellsberg years ago....he was a communist working at the behest of the Chinese.....didn't have legs however....so they attempted assination and charges...both failed. In the end they had to admit....the truth was out. vietnam was a sham. Such a similiar thing will replicate I fully anticipate.

My guess if things get strange....Assange is not publically assinated as that would hinder, but privately disappeared, and then replaced with another Assange, who states what is then the current desired veil of information.
Have to get pretty strange for such extreme measures....but never say never. Wikileaks has methods of release however (rumored) to continue the releases sans players. If so it will never hit american media but globally it could not be stopped.
I find it quite interesting to be able to watch a spook war first hand so to speak. Right out of the manual.

To add....to lazye's view then Daniel Ellsberg should never have stolen the pentagons papers he did and as result the US would in all likelyhood still be fighting in Vietnam, to whit thousands and thousands more dead for not good reason ....Geeze louise...where do I start.

Why is the US maintaining such large troves of information in one centralized data base.....it is quite stupid. This is only secret information, imagine it was top secret or eyes only...what then?
If nothing else the idiots who run the US intelligence network who failed to years ago predict the fall of the soviet union, the attack of 9/11 and many other things are true to their incompetant form, and will hopefully learn from this. Large databases such as the nofly list are not necessarily the way to go in the field of intelligence. With size comes accessability, and possibly changeability, in this case to a PFC with a blank lady gaga CD.
What a bunch of morons. Last I checked the Wikileaks site/sites were still up..can't even figure that one out....idiots. At least they may learn this lesson, it could have been a enemy force or foe.

[ronnewmexico]

Assange...arrest warrent produced in the UK yesterday....surrendered to authorities.

Needless to say the circumstances of the warrent are highly irregular. He is not under arrest but only to be arrested for questioning in relationship to the claims made against him. To be extradited to Sweden.

He was not subject to any manhunt as has been reported in American media as he has never hid from the authorites only from the potential assasins prompted and incited by the various statements of governmental officials calling for his death.

So he is already in american media eyes tried and convicted..
How strange these peoples and place be. I fear for their future.

As all may know..prior Wikileaks was dropped from Amazons server at the request of US government. Paypal has suspended their service. Now Mastercard and Visa have suspended their services to the organization.Donations are still being taken at a university address in Australia. Horray Aussies

Assange needless to say is fighting extradition.......extraordinary rendition for him....I wonder?

[ronnewmexico]

News from the front

To thwart the cyber attacks wikileaks is now mirrored to 1005 sites globally. Up from 250 three days ago to 350 now to 1000 plus.....

Donations are still accepted by various means not able to be destroyed. This message is however no request for solicitation of donations of any kind. Just a update from the trenches.

The war continues.....spooks verses hackers....who will win the day?
Top or close to top news on all internet new media the visual media is however not mentioning much excepting disinformation as stated above.

[justsit]

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

-William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

[Individual]

Wikileaks isn't a bad idea.

Julian Assange is a douche.

Lots of people support or oppose leaking information without evaluating the leaks involved. This is misguided.

Stuff should be leaked from time-to-time. But not all stuff should be leaked -- just stuff relating to cases of corruption, illegal or unethical activity, etc.. Julian Assange seems to be a douche because he promotes leaking stuff just because it's there and makes public officials look bad. When he ends up in prison or dead, it will be his karma. His actions could cause global instability on many levels, in ways that aren't necessarily positive. While I admire the goal of the organization, from what I've seen of the man, Assange comes across as a bit of a self-absorbed narcissist. He criticizes the media's handling of information, but he did not give the New York Times a direct copy of his latest leak because they were highly critical of him. This is fundamentally no different than politicians restricting media access for the same reason. It's also very strange for him to issue threats to world governments regarding "the latest leak." Lastly, I would be very cautious in even believing that some of the stuff they've published is even truthful. Eventually, it will come to light that at least some of their published documents were fake.

[ronnewmexico]

I wouldn't argue with that...(second post above not the directly above post which is nonsense)

especially this part..."The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Seeems so. Even as a demon has taken their minds, and made them mute.

Just fresh from a democrat political representative defending extending unemployment benefits, to corporate media in interview, he posits much but no retort.
The patent falsehood being propogated is that the unemployed will stop looking for work if they get extended benefits....

the response has to be....who would stop looking for work as benefits by average are a third of the unemployed salary prior to unemployment. And part of the benefit is the necessity of having to continue to look for work. Years ago five or so places had to be contacted each week and if a job is offered and refused the benefits ceased. I assume it has not changed much.

But he did not reply with anything that refuted the claim.

It is like a demon has taken their mind and made them unable to refute anything or think things through.
Now tax breaks for the rich is almost a certainty. As none probably can think or verse how or why this should not happen.

What has happened to these people that they have lost the abiity to think and express?

Is it end of times? When all the Buddhas rumor has it will abandon the earth? Is it as Chods tibetan founder fortold....a time where demons of all sort and description abound everywhere working their mischiff everywhere. A time when people have come to worship chariots.....is this time now?

I do expect it is the beginings of the end for this empire. And these peoples have become so disabled of the intellect I fear for their safety. The dumb in this cutthroat world of predatory nature they have created historically are routinely brought to slaughter, more than cows or sheep I think.

A great tragedy wil soon ensue.

Side noted....one cable just released has the US buying nations. Of by payout, agreeing to things in the proposed climate control agreement the US wants(30 Million dollars I think) that given to pacific island nations that are disappearing....

Do they think climate change and its consequences can be wished or legislated away?

Great tragedy. The billions of untimely deaths to ensue will make any biblical apocolypse seem tame in compare. If they knew such tragedy was to ensue would their views as some expressed here be as they are......I suspect not at all. We must of course always balance the spiritual with the conventional, as meditations with good acts. But a billion or so forced to relocate, deaths and such, consequential to rising seas, and the concern he and the group who exposes such corruption has gone to far.....

I just don't know where to begin...sheep to slaughter. Is is so sad.
Take the time just one of you to see the consequence when the greenland ice cap moves from stable land to sea. Take a half hour or so to look up the prospected sea levels. Then look perhaps to see where 4/5th of the worlds populations live....Take a ice cube from your frig, then fill up a glass with water...see perhaps the level when ice dropped in, does it rise or fall..... The ice in greenland be, yes on land right now, as ice cube in frig not in glass it be. When cap does slide to where does it go? To what consequence that effect all this known as fact?

Look perhaps if you have the time at the just released cable on the bribe. The cable is not so important that they are working actively to stop action that is very really needed right this moment.....is very very important. Bodhiccitta I don't know what it is. I do know I want not to see them die before their time for no good reason.