The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:14 pm

Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:Maybe some people should mind their own freakin' business.



By that logic we shouldn't halt all manner of private albeit questionable activities, like narcotics consumption for example, because it is none of our business what adults do in the privacy of their own homes.

Some argue that narcotics damage society, hence must be proscribed. Well, some argue gay marriage will damage society, too.


False comparison. There is clear evidence for the damage that drugs do. There is no evidence for societal damage caused by gay families. It is possible that the type of society that includes gay marriage/families is not to your liking but you have shown nothing that says its worse than the societal format you prefer.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:18 pm

Feminism has already destroyed the middle class which has lead to America's joke of a economy. Legalization of gay marriage will only further deteriorate things morally and economically but the major damage has already been done it seems.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Indrajala » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:27 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:False comparison. There is clear evidence for the damage that drugs do. There is no evidence for societal damage caused by gay families.


Of course you would say that. Conservatives (not just in the west, Russia too) have their evidence that they would put forward, but understandably you would probably deny whatever they had to say on the matter and outright reject it.


It is possible that the type of society that includes gay marriage/families is not to your liking but you have shown nothing that says its worse than the societal format you prefer.


I have pointed to the fact gay marriage sets a legal precedent that other groups will use for their own claims, which have to be addressed sooner or later.

If denying gay marriage = human rights infringement, then denying some groups the right to child marriages can also be claimed as a human rights infringement. You can argue this doesn't apply because children can't give consent, but their parents can in fact do so on their behalf, and in any case the trends of increasingly liberalized societies in the west suggest eventually multiculturalism will have to accommodate such alien practices. To do otherwise would be to discriminate against a culture, people and/or religion, and that would be a violation of fundamental human rights, or so it could be legitimately argued.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:40 pm

Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:False comparison. There is clear evidence for the damage that drugs do. There is no evidence for societal damage caused by gay families.


Of course you would say that. Conservatives (not just in the west, Russia too) have their evidence that they would put forward, but understandably you would probably deny whatever they had to say on the matter and outright reject it.


It is possible that the type of society that includes gay marriage/families is not to your liking but you have shown nothing that says its worse than the societal format you prefer.


I have pointed to the fact gay marriage sets a legal precedent that other groups will use for their own claims, which have to be addressed sooner or later.

If denying gay marriage = human rights infringement, then denying some groups the right to child marriages can also be claimed as a human rights infringement. You can argue this doesn't apply because children can't give consent, but their parents can in fact do so on their behalf, and in any case the trends of increasingly liberalized societies in the west suggest eventually multiculturalism will have to accommodate such alien practices. To do otherwise would be to discriminate against a culture, people and/or religion, and that would be a violation of fundamental human rights, or so it could be legitimately argued.


More straw men. In which liberalized societies can parents provide consent for minors to marry? If anything child marriage is an issue only in religious conservative societies.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:42 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Britain has already implemented some sharia laws to accomodate muslims.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:47 pm

Nighthawk wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Britain has already implemented some sharia laws to accomodate muslims.


Yes, you are mistaken. The law in the UK is the same for everyone (well except the rich of course). You can't petition a court to let you off a crime just because it is permitted by your faith.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Indrajala » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:47 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:More straw men. In which liberalized societies can parents provide consent for minors to marry?


It will come. Canada or Britain might be the first countries to allow it for religious purposes.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Indrajala » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:48 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Britain has already implemented some sharia laws to accomodate muslims.


Yes, you are mistaken. The law in the UK is the same for everyone (well except the rich of course). You can't petition a court to let you off a crime just because it is permitted by your faith.



There's different kinds of law. Family law, criminal law, etc.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:55 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:Feminism has already destroyed the middle class which has lead to America's joke of a economy. Legalization of gay marriage will only further deteriorate things morally and economically but the major damage has already been done it seems.


Are you a troll or just :crazy: ?


Me having a different opinion from yours does not mean I'm trolling.

Strong nuclear families result in a big middle class and then you have a strong economy. Feminism has destroyed the nuclear family.


Nonsense. Free market economic policies that favor the superrich at the expense of everyone else have destroyed the middle class and the nuclear family.

Economic policies that rightwing dolts cheerlead for against their own best interests.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:56 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:
Better get that survivalist bunker built then. You are spouting paranoid right-wing nonsense.


If all this is upsetting you then you should never go to Texas. You will end up insane.


Why would anyone want to go to Texas?? Although I hear Austin is nice.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:More straw men. In which liberalized societies can parents provide consent for minors to marry?


It will come. Canada or Britain might be the first countries to allow it for religious purposes.

The nature of the subject in hand does not prevent prapanca being prapanca.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Indrajala » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:01 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:Better get that survivalist bunker built then. You are spouting paranoid right-wing nonsense.


Do you realize some people in the west are actively advocating for government acceptance of Sharia Law?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/20 ... nadaalmost

In Canada it will probably get to the point that to voice opposition against such things will result in being called a bigot or worse, just as now when someone voices opposition to gay marriage.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:02 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:
Better get that survivalist bunker built then. You are spouting paranoid right-wing nonsense.


If all this is upsetting you then you should never go to Texas. You will end up insane.


Why would anyone want to go to Texas?? Although I hear Austin is nice.


Love Texas. Been to Dallas a few times myself.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby greentara » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:05 pm

Some time ago I remember reading about twenty-six year old (female) lawyer who says, 'I choose to use the name Dean and masculine pronouns. In part this feels right because most people who look at me take me to be woman, so using these words helps to disrupt that process a little and opens a space for me to be something more complicated than that, which I feel better fits who I really am.'
It seems that the idea of identity flux, of being able to be whoever you want, is an essential part of the times we are living in.
The key word here is 'who I really am?'
So really who am I?
Lets dive deep within and look at it from a Buddhist and spiritual perspective, limited identities fail to address the fact that our true identity is limitless.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:09 pm

Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:Better get that survivalist bunker built then. You are spouting paranoid right-wing nonsense.


Do you realize some people in the west are actively advocating for government acceptance of Sharia Law?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/20 ... nadaalmost

In Canada it will probably get to the point that to voice opposition against such things will result in being called a bigot or worse, just as now when someone voices opposition to gay marriage.


People advocate all sorts of things. It doesn't mean anyone will pay any attention. I can assure you as a UK resident that implementation of Sharia law for some or all of its citizens is not on the cards any time soon.

The law must apply to citizens equally to be fair. You cannot have one law for one religious group and one for others. Similarly, you cannot have one set of rights for people of one sexual orientation and a different one for others.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:22 pm

Nighthawk wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Britain has already implemented some sharia laws to accomodate muslims.



Completely wrong. But do keep demonstrating your general ignorance, it is more revealing than you seem to realise.


I've read different but if not then it's a just a matter of time. :popcorn:



You are misinformed. And you did not read different. You read something different or you read differently.

Your knowledge base would appear to equal your grasp of grammar.

Britain , by which I assume you mean the U.K., has not implemented any dimension of Sharia Law and to do so would be political suicide for the government of the day.

So we can add Islamaphobia to your homophobia.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:44 pm

Indrajala wrote:
I have pointed to the fact gay marriage sets a legal precedent that other groups will use for their own claims, which have to be addressed sooner or later.


And this absurd contention has been dismantled several times.

If denying gay marriage = human rights infringement,


Not human rights, civil rights.

...then denying some groups the right to child marriages can also be claimed as a human rights infringement. You can argue this doesn't apply because children can't give consent, but their parents can in fact do so on their behalf, and in any case the trends of increasingly liberalized societies in the west suggest eventually multiculturalism will have to accommodate such alien practices.


This is no more problematical than denying some groups the right to mutilate the genitals of their female children. Why do we deny such rights? Because the basic right to property is the right to one's body. In a liberalized society, parents do not have rights to their children's bodies. Parents have an obligation to protect the basic rights of their children, by they have no right to violate the right of a child to the integrity of their own bodies except in cases of illnesses where a child may wish to refuse treatments and so on.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:48 pm

Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:Maybe some people should mind their own freakin' business.



By that logic we shouldn't halt all manner of private albeit questionable activities, like narcotics consumption for example, because it is none of our business what adults do in the privacy of their own homes.

Some argue that narcotics damage society, hence must be proscribed. Well, some argue gay marriage will damage society, too.


And some people argue that evolution destroys the moral fabric of society, still argue that equal rights for blacks damages society and so on. Some people will argue anything. This does not mean their arguments are valid or even deserve to be entertained.

In the case of narcotics, the medical evidence is very clear. In the case of gay marriage there is no evidence at all that it will "damage" society, just like the appallingly stupid claim that feminism has destroyed the American family has no evidence.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:55 pm

Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:More straw men. In which liberalized societies can parents provide consent for minors to marry?


It will come. Canada or Britain might be the first countries to allow it for religious purposes.


In fact parental marriage consent for minors already exists in states like Kentucky and so on has for a very long time, hearkening back to the day when it was not unusual for girls to be married off at 15.

Child betrothal is an Indian custom, and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent two sets of parents from agreeing that their children will become married in any country apart from the children themselves when they come of age. But as India and so on liberalize, these kinds of things will become rarer and rarer. They will not spread to the West.

As for Sharia law, well, it can't ever spread to the US on any level, so this paranoia is just an Alex Jones/Prison Planet non-starter.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:01 pm

Nighthawk wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Britain has already implemented some sharia laws to accomodate muslims.


The Sharia being advocated for is in matrimonial in-community property disputes and so on. This is legally (in the US) defined under the same laws allowing the entering into of legally binding arbitration and requires that it be entered into consensually by two or more parties. It is the same right already granted to Rabbinical courts in the US, Canada, and the UK.
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