The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:04 pm

Here is an old article on the role of the Rabbinical courts in the UK:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/feb/09/uk.religion2
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:05 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:

Nonsense. Free market economic policies that favor the superrich at the expense of everyone else have destroyed the middle class and the nuclear family.

Economic policies that rightwing dolts cheerlead for against their own best interests.


Free market policies created the middle class. Illegal financial speculation in exotic investment instruments have destroyed the middle class. The nuclear family is a socioeconomic myth invented in the fifties; in reality, the "nuclear" family destroyed itself, since two parents are not really capable of adequately raising children on their own.

The raising of children requires many people, the increased social alienation and misery that we see since the fifties is a result of the nuclear family and the decline of the extended family system.

Free markets do not mean unregulated markets. Free markets can and should operate within constraints. But they are the most efficient way of getting goods from place a to b. Planned economies are all nightmares.
Last edited by Malcolm on Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:11 pm

jeeprs wrote:Well, I'm afraid I do not concur. I admit, I might be quite mistaken, and I agree that others may hold completely different views to my own. But the issue is, as regards the recognition of 'gay marriage', that I am being compelled to agree. It means that the society of which I am part, no longer recognizes my right to dissent. It is not enough for me to live and let live anymore; I am required to live and applaud. And I'm not going to do that.


Really? The Australian government rounds you all up and marches you down to the pride parade to cheer?
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:14 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:

Nonsense. Free market economic policies that favor the superrich at the expense of everyone else have destroyed the middle class and the nuclear family.

Economic policies that rightwing dolts cheerlead for against their own best interests.


Free market policies created the middle class. Illegal financial speculation in exotic investment instruments have destroyed the middle class. The nuclear family is a socioeconomic myth invented in the fifties; in reality, the "nuclear" family destroyed itself, since two parents are not really capable of adequately raising children on their own.

The raising of children requires many people, the increased social alienation and misery that we see since the fifties is a result of the nuclear family and the decline of the extended family system.

Free markets do not mean unregulated markets. Free markets can and should operate within constraints. But they are the most efficient way of getting good from place a to b. Planned economies are all nightmares.


So the undermining of unions, offshoring of manufacturing and globalized competition for wages has had no effect on middleclass incomes or the frequent necessity for both partners in a marriage to go out to work then?
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:23 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:
So the undermining of unions, ofshoring of manufacturing and globalized competition for wages has had no effect on middleclass incomes or the necessity for both partners in a marriage to go out to work then?


These are all factors in a competitive liberalized global economy. The alternative is much worse.

The decline of the middle class in the US has resulted in a rise in the middle class in other places such as China, India and Mexico. Such are the tides of the global economy.

You can't plan the economy, you can't "save" the middle class; the most you can go is decide what kinds of activities you are going to restrict, for example, pharmaceuticals as opposed to heroin; legal mining as opposed to unregulated illegal mining (a big problem in India), etc.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:31 pm

greentara wrote:Some time ago I remember reading about twenty-six year old (female) lawyer who says, 'I choose to use the name Dean and masculine pronouns. In part this feels right because most people who look at me take me to be woman, so using these words helps to disrupt that process a little and opens a space for me to be something more complicated than that, which I feel better fits who I really am.'
It seems that the idea of identity flux, of being able to be whoever you want, is an essential part of the times we are living in.
The key word here is 'who I really am?'
So really who am I?
Lets dive deep within and look at it from a Buddhist and spiritual perspective, limited identities fail to address the fact that our true identity is limitless.


We cannot expect them to subscribe to Buddhist ideals.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Malcolm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:35 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:
jeeprs wrote:Well, I'm afraid I do not concur. I admit, I might be quite mistaken, and I agree that others may hold completely different views to my own. But the issue is, as regards the recognition of 'gay marriage', that I am being compelled to agree. It means that the society of which I am part, no longer recognizes my right to dissent. It is not enough for me to live and let live anymore; I am required to live and applaud. And I'm not going to do that.


Really? The Australian government rounds you all up and marches you down to the pride parade to cheer?



They do that in Canada too, that's why Jeff left. Rob Ford is the only bastion of conservative values left in Canada, I hope they elect him prime minister soon.

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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:18 pm

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:Here is an old article on the role of the Rabbinical courts in the UK:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/feb/09/uk.religion2



What is being discussed in that article is of course a very different proposition to an implementation of Sharia which would result in Muslims having the freedom the break existing UK law, either civil or criminal...which was what Nighthawk was suggesting, specifically his/her contention that the age of consent could be lowered to accomodate Sharia Law..not so.

Just today as it happens the Prime Minster repeated the government's absolute opposition to female genital mutilation and its intention to use the full force of the law to stop the practice.
I know that f.g.m is practised by a minority of Muslims only..
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:25 pm

Simon E. wrote:
mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:Here is an old article on the role of the Rabbinical courts in the UK:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/feb/09/uk.religion2



What is being discussed in that article is of course a very different proposition to an implementation of Sharia which would result in Muslims having the freedom the break existing UK law, either civil or criminal...which was what Nighthawk was suggesting, specifically his/her contention that the age of consent could be lowered to accomodate Sharia Law..not so.


Yes, I'm aware. I guess I wasn't clear. I was responding to Nighthawk and Jeff's contention by pointing out what is actually happening in the legal systems of these countries, rather than the paranoid fantasy version on offer here.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:30 pm

Quite so... :namaste:
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:46 pm

Simon E. wrote:
What is being discussed in that article is of course a very different proposition to an implementation of Sharia which would result in Muslims having the freedom the break existing UK law, either civil or criminal...which was what Nighthawk was suggesting, specifically his/her contention that the age of consent could be lowered to accomodate Sharia Law..not so.


Can you not put words in my mouth? I never said anything about specifics.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:57 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:
Indrajala wrote:
Knotty Veneer wrote:False comparison. There is clear evidence for the damage that drugs do. There is no evidence for societal damage caused by gay families.


Of course you would say that. Conservatives (not just in the west, Russia too) have their evidence that they would put forward, but understandably you would probably deny whatever they had to say on the matter and outright reject it.


It is possible that the type of society that includes gay marriage/families is not to your liking but you have shown nothing that says its worse than the societal format you prefer.


I have pointed to the fact gay marriage sets a legal precedent that other groups will use for their own claims, which have to be addressed sooner or later.

If denying gay marriage = human rights infringement, then denying some groups the right to child marriages can also be claimed as a human rights infringement. You can argue this doesn't apply because children can't give consent, but their parents can in fact do so on their behalf, and in any case the trends of increasingly liberalized societies in the west suggest eventually multiculturalism will have to accommodate such alien practices. To do otherwise would be to discriminate against a culture, people and/or religion, and that would be a violation of fundamental human rights, or so it could be legitimately argued.


More straw men. In which liberalized societies can parents provide consent for minors to marry? If anything child marriage is an issue only in religious conservative societies.

To which you replied Nighthawk...
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:57 pm

Nighthawk wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Britain has already implemented some sharia laws to accomodate muslims.



Thus.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Simon E. » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:59 pm

Nighthawk wrote:Feminism has already destroyed the middle class which has lead to America's joke of a economy. Legalization of gay marriage will only further deteriorate things morally and economically but the major damage has already been done it seems.


Which followed this comic masterpiece... :D
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:07 pm

Simon E. wrote:To which you replied Nighthawk...


I wasn't referring specifically about the age of consent. I said "some" laws because I was not sure which ones. Brush up on the reading comprehension.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Nighthawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:09 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:Feminism has already destroyed the middle class which has lead to America's joke of a economy. Legalization of gay marriage will only further deteriorate things morally and economically but the major damage has already been done it seems.


Which followed this comic masterpiece... :D


I still stand by what I said. That's not to say there aren't other factors at play that are responsible for the decline.
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Re: The Dalai Lama Says Gay Marriage Is OK

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:17 pm

Thread being locked for review.
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