Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

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Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Indrajala » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:24 pm

This is a disturbing trend.



JAKARTA — Police and government officials today (Aug 5) condemned an attack on a Buddhist temple in Indonesia’s capital after a small bomb detonated as devotees inside prayed, injuring one person. Two other devices failed to go off.

The explosion happened last night at the Ekayana Grha Buddhist temple in West Jakarta. The blast went off near the front door of the building, slightly damaging the structure, chief of National Police Detective Lt Gen Sutarman told reporters at the scene.

Another bomb placed near the back door emitted smoke, but did not go off and a third device placed inside the temple also failed to go off, added Lt Gen Sutarman who, like many Indonesians, uses a single name. Police were investigating.

“Now, the terrorists may have shifted their target from (Christian) churches to (Buddhist) temples,” Lt Gen Sutarman said. “This is possibly triggered by the sectarian conflict in Myanmar.”

One of the devices reportedly had the message “we are responding to the screams of the Rohingya” written on it, referring to the Muslims facing persecution in Myanmar.

Muslim militants in Indonesia angered over sectarian violence between Buddhists and Muslims in Myanmar have threatened to attack Buddhist temples here. In May, two men were arrested with low explosives in a backpack as part of an alleged plot to bomb the Myanmar Embassy in Jakarta.

The incident occurred days ahead of festivities planned to celebrate the end of the holy month of Ramadan. Indonesia is the world’s most populous Muslim nation, and most people practice a moderate form of the religion.

Mr Djoko Suyanto, coordinating minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, condemned the attack, and called for increased vigilance against any sign of terrorism.

“Security authorities have been ordered to search and capture the perpetrators who have damaged the peaceful environment of the fasting month,” Mr Suyanto said today. AP


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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:33 pm

With any luck the Burmese regime will grow a brain and do something to stem the violence against the Rohingya minority.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:22 pm

Greg I think you are a great guy but...

If you think changing policy in Burma at this point will do anything to satisfy the ignited rage of militant Islamic outfits I think you are very mistaken. Plus, these acts of terrorism are not happening in Burma but in Indonesia and amongst the Tibetan communities. Buddhists in Indonesia and Tibetans are already disenfranchised minorities. They are simply easy targets for disgusting bullies- in fact, bullies who are just as misguided as those who targeted the Rohinga people.

I feel your comment was pretty insensitive.

Terrorism as a rule follows no laws, has no logic. It strikes whenever it has the chance to, and harms people even outside a conflict out of a mistaken idea that the ends justify the means.

The current identity politics brigade thought on this issue here in Canada is that the entire Buddhist world "should answer" for Burma, in the words of one of my academic friends.

If every time a bomb goes off at a Buddhist temple or pilgrimage site we view as a message to change policy in Buddhist countries, we have fallen into a pretty strange mentality. I am not advocating that we should ever respond with violence- far from it. But I am saying that to deny there is a terrible problem with terrorism in the Muslim World is like saying that that were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. We don't have to pull the wool over our eyes because this does nothing to address the problem.

My sister is friends with a Lesbian couple in Nova Scotia who helped sponsor a gay Saudi man to come to Canada to escape persecution. He told me that he was shocked at the silence of Western countries about human rights abuses in the Muslim world. Canada accepted him as a refugee because his sexuality would be grounds for death according to the Sharia law practiced in his country. This man told me about what he was taught about other religions, homosexuality and women while a young student. He said that the culture of political correctness means that any critical discussion of Islam has become difficult in Canada. He said told me every time meaningful queries are silenced in the name of "respect", we condemn many homosexuals, women and religious minorities to further misery in fundamentalist Islamic countries.

It is just as stupid a way of thinking as saying all Muslims are terrorists. The Burmese-Rohinga issue is an ethnic conflict in a country still operating under a non-democratic system. It has nothing to do with the Buddhist religion or global Buddhist community.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:04 pm

No, I think that if the Burmese govenrment grows a brain and starts protecting its citizens, then fanatical lunatics won't have legitimate reasons to display their rage by blowing up innocents. The Burmese regime (theoretically a Buddhist government) is playing right into the hands of fundamentalists, and this time the fundamentalists actually have a point. Not that I agree with how they express the point, but they do have one.

And, I believe, that terrorism does have a logic. Again, it does not mean that I agree with the logic, but it does have a logic and under some circumstances it produces results.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:09 pm

then fanatical lunatics won't have legitimate reasons to display their rage by blowing up innocents.


Legitimate reasons to blow up innocents... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby plwk » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:14 pm

Ven Indrajala, I am unsure if you remember that back in 1985, militants blew up the upper parts of the monuments at Borobudur and that was just after a recent restoration work by the government and the UN in 1983. So violence against the Buddhists there is nothing new by a vocal minority but I doubt it reflects on the majority of the normally peaceful and accommodative Indonesian Muslims there. I know of one very pious Indonesian Muslim from Java who works at a local Buddhist bookstore here and is the longest staff member there and gets to go back to Java for nearly a month for the annual celebration of the Eid Al Fitr. I used to joke with him if he follows the fasting time zone of my country or his own lol. Funny how they believe that during the holy month of Ramadhan, the gates of hell and the devil are locked up yet they can't contain the humans...
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:20 pm

I know of one very pious Indonesian Muslim from Java who works at a local Buddhist bookstore here and is the longest staff member there and gets to go back to Java for nearly a month for the annual celebration of the Eid Al Fitr.


Indonesia is a pretty good model for a functioning, pluralistic Islamic society- especially when compared with neighbouring Indonesia. Hopefully this remains the case and the country is not hijacked politically by militants. But generally I also have found the Indonesia Muslim people quite tolerant and kind, and willing to have discussions.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:41 pm

JKhedrup wrote:
then fanatical lunatics won't have legitimate reasons to display their rage by blowing up innocents.


Legitimate reasons to blow up innocents... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
No, not legitimate reasons to blow up innocents legitimate reasons to be upset.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:14 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:
then fanatical lunatics won't have legitimate reasons to display their rage by blowing up innocents.


Legitimate reasons to blow up innocents... I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
No, not legitimate reasons to blow up innocents legitimate reasons to be upset.
The moment they kill innocents, their reasons become irrelevant.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:24 pm

]The moment they kill innocents, their reasons become irrelevant.



Is this also true for something like US drone bombings?

Because i'll bet "they" think it is.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Ramon1920 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:29 pm

Why is it that we can recognize people like the Nazi's were out to take over everything and forcefully convert or kill all non Christians/"aryans", but we can't recognize when other groups of people are doing the same?

Despite the politically correct blindfold denying such things exist, there really are groups of people that want to take over everything and subjugate or kill everyone who does not belong to their group.

The groups seeking to force something on the world can be defined by various things: ethnicity, religion, associations, sexual orientation, nationality, whatever. And you can easily find instances of such groups existing in the real world.

We call it racism, religious fundamentalism, cronyism, and the last two I'm not sure of specific terms for them.

There is a unifying thread in the history of Abrahamic religions where they are initiated with killing sprees that claim the lives of hundreds of thousands. Over time the deaths are in the millions. I don't think we should pretend this doesn't exist. Those of you with European, Arab, and Jewish backgrounds, there is practically no chance that the first of your ancestors to be of their respective religion chose to become followers of god. If you're a European, then your ancestors were forced to convert or massacred by Charlemagne. If you are Arab your ancestors were forced to convert or die by a caliphate. If your ancestors were Jewish then they were probably forced to convert or die by Moses' fanatical cult mob.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:40 pm

Konchog1 wrote:The moment they kill innocents, their reasons become irrelevant.
Hogwash, their means become irrelevant, not their reasons.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby kirtu » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:13 pm

JKhedrup wrote:Terrorism as a rule follows no laws, has no logic.


Terrorism does in fact follow rules and has a logic. Terrorists are trying to keep their cause uppermost in the minds of people, both people they see as beneficiaries and/or potential followers of their group and people who they view both as enemies and people indifferent to their cause. They also want to strike at perceived enemies. Terrorism follows a militarial and political logic with a mostly propagandist objective. It is very dangerous to view terrorism as random and divorced from political and militarial objectives.

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:45 pm

It is very dangerous to view terrorism as random and divorced from political and militarial objectives.


With the people pulling the strings perhaps not. But Al Qaeda as an international organism is no longer so plausible. Most of these attacks, including the recent ones in England, are committed by disaffected, angry youths who hear about jihad on the web. I am not sure these types of attackers really have a broad social or political objective in mind, for example, when they stab an off-duty soldier in broad daylight. It is simply revenge. Similarly, I don't think that an attack on a temple in Indonesia could be seen as a real way to affect policy in Burma by any reasonable person.

The Indian Mujahadeen attacks in Bodh Gaya, however, do follow a political and militarial objectives, namely the growth of Islam within the Indian state and a slow vanquishment of Idolators (Hindu or Buddhist) from the country.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:53 pm

No, not legitimate reasons to blow up innocents legitimate reasons to be upset.


No one is questioning the rights of Muslims to be upset by the human rights abuses in Burma. Or the reckless use of drones by the American government. These are all part of the equation, but not all of it.

One of the questions that needs to be asked that does not sit well with the politically correct identity politics paradigm, is why there is a widespread use of terrorism across the Muslim world. The Saudi man I mentioned above stated to me that this is because of the scriptural edicts of the religion itself. If this is the case addressing atrocities against Muslims is only a small part of the equation in addressing this problem. A theological re-examination of the entire faith in the context of a multi-religious and increasingly secular global community like the discussion happening within Catholicism right now is the only way to do it.

For example, the widely accepted edict that apostates should be killed needs to be revised according to contemporary mores if the radicalization of the next generation of Muslims is to be prevented. Personally, I cannot speak out against Christian conservatives like Pat Robertson who would impose their mores on the world on the one hand, and then look the other way when it comes to Islamic fundamentalism. This denial of a problem within the tradition itself also does nothing to serve the millions of women, homosexuals, religious minorities and so forth who are to this day denied the most basic human rights in Muslim countries.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:57 pm

sorry double post
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:04 pm

If it were the religion itself, particularly scripture, then modern Jews and Christians would be behaving the same or worse than Muslims lol, from some perspectives i'll bet they are. read your Old (and in places New) testament, it's just as violent if not more than the Koran.

So, it is not just religion or scripture motivating these things, seems so obvious it's hardly worse mentioning.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:11 pm

The Old Testament yes, but as I mentioned above, how can I criticize Pat Robertson and Dominionist Fundamentalist Christians but dismiss radical Islam as being solely motivated by the post-colonial political situation in the Muslim world?

Anyways, don't trust the word of this white Buddhist-convert monk. See "The Trouble with Islam" by Irshad Manji.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:14 pm

JKhedrup wrote:The Indian Mujahadeen attacks in Bodh Gaya, however, do follow a political and militarial objectives, namely the growth of Islam within the Indian state and a slow vanquishment of Idolators (Hindu or Buddhist) from the country.
I have yet to see any proof that Muslims were responsible for the bombings at Bodhgaya.
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:20 pm

JKhedrup wrote:The Old Testament yes, but as I mentioned above, how can I criticize Pat Robertson and Dominionist Fundamentalist Christians but dismiss radical Islam as being solely motivated by the post-colonial political situation in the Muslim world?

Anyways, don't trust the word of this white Buddhist-convert monk. See "The Trouble with Islam" by Irshad Manji.


Sure it has something to do with the religion, but Islam today does not exist in a vaccuum from geo political situation etc. Never sure what the big mystery is for people here, it's like everyone is looking for a reason to see Islam as uniquely bad, ot uniquely more guilty than other faiths.
Not only do I not think that's true, I think some other aggrieved group could just as easily do what fundamentalist Islam is doing now...Oh wait, minus the pointed propaganda-intending focus on public terror that Kirtu talked about, they pretty much have. Look at asome of the stuff that right wing Militia did in south america, easily as ghastly as what Muslim terrorism is doing - much of it was against civilians too, and plenty were sponsored and trained by the US.

IF you wanna be paranoid of The Great Muslim conspiracy go for it, personally to me it looks like what it is, which is a particular group in a particular time and place doing some particualrly nasty things in retaliation for what they see as grave injustice. Its totally reasonable to criticize the parts of Muslim culture what one finds abhorrent, and from what I see (despite your claims of a conspiracy of silence) both people and media are happy to do that quite regularly. I'm ok with just trying to see things as they are without jumping on some kind of culture war bandwagon, aren't you?

Also, maybe it's a difference between the US and Canada, but all the nonsense here about "Political Correctness" is just that, since Americans can't even deal with things like Mosques being built without freaking out, i'm pretty sure that we are sade from the imposition of Shariah for the moment. I have seen for more examples of people around me in daily life talking about how we should nuke all Muslims, deport them all etc. than I have any kind of Politically correct protection of Islam.
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