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the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread - Page 32 - Dhamma Wheel

the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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reflection
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby reflection » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:44 pm

There is no "in Nibbana".

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:44 pm

Nibbāna is described as the cessation of perception and feeling, not as the cessation of consciousness. If there were no awareness while the Noble Ones were abiding in Fruition Consciousness (phallacitta), they would be no different to someone who is unconscious or fast asleep.

Both path consciousness (maggacitta) and fruition consciousness (phalacitta) are types of consciousness, not the absence of consciousness. Nibbāna cannot be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, or touched. However, it can be cognized by the mind.

See my article on , which collects some key points from the Milinda Pañha.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Zom » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:59 pm


vinasp
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby vinasp » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:52 pm

Hi Dugu,

Quote:
"Or is nibbana also cessation of all forms of consciousness?"

1. Do you mean nibbana for one still alive, or some supposed after-death state?

2. If you mean for one still living, why would anyone even ask this question?
Are you confused by certain passages in the Nikaya's?

Please provide more background, to help us understand the question.

Kind regards, Vincent.

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ground
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby ground » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:09 am


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Dugu
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Dugu » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:00 pm


vinasp
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby vinasp » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:50 am

Hi Dugu,

Quote:

"I suppose my question refers more to after-death state."

We are all, of course, free to believe whatever we wish, so I expect that
you will receive a wide range of answers to your question. Many forum
members seem to be mixing different Buddhist traditions. But, here is the
opinion of a modern writer from within the Theravada tradition.

From: What the Buddha taught, by Walpola Rahula - online version - Link:

http://www.quangduc.com/English/basic/6 ... ht-04.html

"Some popular inaccurately phrased expressions like ‘The Buddha entered into Nirvāna or Parinirvāna after his death’ have given rise to many imaginary speculations about Nirvāna. [22]The moment you hear the phrase that ‘the Buddha entered into Nirvāna or Parinirvāna’, you take Nirvāna to be a state, or a realm, or a position in which there is some sort of existence, and try to imagine it in terms of the senses of the word ‘existence’ as it is known to you. This popular expression ‘entered into Nirvāna’ has no equivalent in the original texts. There is no such thing as ‘entering into Nirvāna after death’. There is a word parinibbuto used to denote the death of the Buddha or an Arahant who has realized Nirvāna, but it does not mean ‘entering into Nirvāna’. Parinibbuto simply mean ‘fully blown out’ or ‘fully extinct’, because the Buddha or an Arahant has no re-existence after his death."

------------------------------ End of Quotation ------------------------

I am not sure that I agree with this myself, but it is probably close to
the official position of Theravada ( if there is one).

For myself, I am happy to allow these questions to remain a mystery which
is beyond my capacity to understand.

Kind regards, Vincent.

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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Dugu » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:31 am


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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Virgo » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:35 am



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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Nyana » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:31 am


Sarva
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Sarva » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:53 am

Dear all
I hope Dugu will permit me to add some questions rather than answers to this useful thread. I hope it will help us both because I have some lingering concern with the way consciousness is presented in Theravada.

Firstly, my understanding of the Pali Cannon is that Consciousness is similar to thoughts/memories, which arise and fall, without our ability to control them:

"Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self. Were consciousness self, then this consciousness would not lead to affliction, and one could have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.' And since consciousness is not-self, so it leads to affliction, and none can have it of consciousness: 'Let my consciousness be thus, let my consciousness be not thus.' Link:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html

There is also the concept the consciousness is related to the sense and intellect:

SN 27.3: Viññana Sutta — Consciousness
At Savatthi. "Monks, any desire-passion with regard to eye-consciousness is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to ear-consciousness... nose-consciousness... tongue-consciousness... body-consciousness... intellect-consciousness is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


This is all useful in respect to anatta. However I feel this is not the same consciousness which is well quoted by Ñāṇa above: e.g.

"5. The Fifth Jhāna Sotāpatti Path-consciousness together with equanimity and one-pointedness."
Source here: http://www.palikanon.com/english/sangaha/chapter_1.htm

Is this a problem with translation or are we facing different ideas of consciousness depending on their location and use?
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Nyana » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:56 pm


Sarva
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Sarva » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:02 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Nyana » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:02 am


Sarva
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Sarva » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:28 am

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

Nyana
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Nyana » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:10 am


Sarva
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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Sarva » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:15 am

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Nyana » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 pm


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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby Lazy_eye » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 am


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Re: Are there any consciousness or awareness in Nibbana?

Postby daverupa » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:00 pm



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