Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

A place for discussion of current events. Buddhist news would be particularly appreciated.

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:34 pm

mandala wrote:I disagree. The "depths of our compassion" should indeed be equal. Otherwise, we're just like everyone else in mainstream society who feels "justified anger" at perpetrators and "idiot compassion" for those seen as victims.

Of course you treat different people, differently, but compassion - if we're talking from a Buddhist view - should not be dependent on whether one is a "victim" or a "perpetrator".

If anything, it makes more sense to have MORE compassion for the perpetrator as their suffering has just begun and will inevitably grow. The 'victim' on the other hand, has karma that's already ripened.
Pointing out to the perpertrator that their action is wrong is compassionate. Going to jail for commiting a crime is quite clearly one way in which karma (the action) ripens. Nobody said one should be angry, but let's not lose sight of the fact that there is a victim. The compassion will be dependent on whether one is a victim or a perpertrator because the antidote will be different.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9986
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby Son of Buddha » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:40 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:And all this, of course, justifies so-called Buddhists being fundamentalist pricks. I mean, after all, that's what the Buddha taught us to be, right?


We cannot be justified by commiting immorality.
If these Buddhist have a problem with muslims force converting their buddhist wives to islam upon marraige,then they should make laws saying you cant force convert someone.
I think that is fair and the law would go both ways (no force converting)

This whole making a law on who you can marry and who you can love is just shameful.
This hatred will only end up creating more hatred.
User avatar
Son of Buddha
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby mandala » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:52 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
mandala wrote:I disagree. The "depths of our compassion" should indeed be equal. Otherwise, we're just like everyone else in mainstream society who feels "justified anger" at perpetrators and "idiot compassion" for those seen as victims.

Of course you treat different people, differently, but compassion - if we're talking from a Buddhist view - should not be dependent on whether one is a "victim" or a "perpetrator".

If anything, it makes more sense to have MORE compassion for the perpetrator as their suffering has just begun and will inevitably grow. The 'victim' on the other hand, has karma that's already ripened.
Pointing out to the perpertrator that their action is wrong is compassionate. Going to jail for commiting a crime is quite clearly one way in which karma (the action) ripens. Nobody said one should be angry, but let's not lose sight of the fact that there is a victim. The compassion will be dependent on whether one is a victim or a perpertrator because the antidote will be different.


I'm definitely not saying there shouldn't be punitive action taken for perpetrators. Of course there should be action taken to ensure they don't harm others.

But that's all aside from Anjali's post that i was commenting on - re: our compassion being equal to victim/perpetrator. I'm saying the compassion we feel towards them should be the same because they are both suffering, and one will continue to endure suffering for their actions.

What do antidotes have to do with compassion?
Telling someone their actions are wrong, isn't necessarily compassionate - sometimes it's ego-fuelled, sometimes it's inflammatory. Police don't tell perps they broke the law out of compassion - it's simply the truth!

The thing is, we never "lose sight of the fact there is a victim" as you said - and i think that's a dangerous mentality for a Buddhist to have. It infers that bad things happen to good people for no reason, by inherently bad people. And when we consider karma, we know that's not the case.
Having said that, of course we try to keep others from harm and we comfort those harmed. I suspect we may be talking about the same thing, just in a different way.

Anyways, here's a bit from Ven Robina Courtin:
We realize that we’re all in the same boat: everyone is experiencing the fruits of their past actions and creating the causes for their future experiences. And this includes the people who harm us. Many of the letters in this book are about the suffering that people experience at the hands of others.
It’s almost shocking to think that we can have compassion in response to this harm, but that is what Rinpoche repeatedly advises. As we are suffering now because of our own past actions, so too will they suffer in the future as a result of their present actions. How could we not have compassion? Like a mother for her destructive child, we can see that they are harming themselves.
User avatar
mandala
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:10 pm

mandala wrote:But that's all aside from Anjali's post that i was commenting on - re: our compassion being equal to victim/perpetrator. I'm saying the compassion we feel towards them should be the same because they are both suffering, and one will continue to endure suffering for their actions.
Whereas the victim will stop suffering?
What do antidotes have to do with compassion?
Sorry for the choice of word, I later realised it may be confusing. :smile: We all know that just feeling compassion is not enough, one then has to act on this feeling. Compassionate action helps to salve suffering, but not all suffering is the same. So you cannot apply the same compassionate act.
The thing is, we never "lose sight of the fact there is a victim" as you said - and i think that's a dangerous mentality for a Buddhist to have. It infers that bad things happen to good people for no reason, by inherently bad people. And when we consider karma, we know that's not the case.
When we consider karma we see clearly that there is no such thing as good and bad, deserving or undeserving, innocent or guilty, victim or perpertrator. Just action and outcome. Unfortunately we still have to deal with the relative level though! :smile:
Having said that, of course we try to keep others from harm and we comfort those harmed. I suspect we may be talking about the same thing, just in a different way.
Yes, indeed!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9986
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby anjali » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:04 pm

mandala wrote:But that's all aside from Anjali's post that i was commenting on - re: our compassion being equal to victim/perpetrator. I'm saying the compassion we feel towards them should be the same because they are both suffering, and one will continue to endure suffering for their actions.

I think we are in agreement. I asked whether the depths of our compassion should be asymmetrical with respect to victim and perpetrator. Greg said, no it shouldn't, and I agreed with him. In other words, "the compassion we feel towards them should be the same," meaning not asymmetrical. How that compassion manifests in action will of course be different in each case.
:cheers:
anjali
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby mandala » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:14 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
mandala wrote:But that's all aside from Anjali's post that i was commenting on - re: our compassion being equal to victim/perpetrator. I'm saying the compassion we feel towards them should be the same because they are both suffering, and one will continue to endure suffering for their actions.
Whereas the victim will stop suffering?


Well not exactly, I said they are both suffering. The 'victim' has some say in how long the suffering of that event continues, but for the 'perp' they have just planted the seed for exponential suffering in the future.
What do antidotes have to do with compassion?
Sorry for the choice of word, I later realised it may be confusing. :smile: We all know that just feeling compassion is not enough, one then has to act on this feeling. Compassionate action helps to salve suffering, but not all suffering is the same. So you cannot apply the same compassionate act.
The thing is, we never "lose sight of the fact there is a victim" as you said - and i think that's a dangerous mentality for a Buddhist to have. It infers that bad things happen to good people for no reason, by inherently bad people. And when we consider karma, we know that's not the case.
When we consider karma we see clearly that there is no such thing as good and bad, deserving or undeserving, innocent or guilty, victim or perpertrator. Just action and outcome. Unfortunately we still have to deal with the relative level though! :smile:
Having said that, of course we try to keep others from harm and we comfort those harmed. I suspect we may be talking about the same thing, just in a different way.
Yes, indeed!


Ah gotcha, gotcha! Agreed..
:thumbsup:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote function
User avatar
mandala
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: Monks call to ban Buddhist-Muslim marriages

Postby tingdzin » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:00 pm

Wrong post, sorry
tingdzin
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Previous

Return to News & Current Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fruitzilla, gad rgyangs and 4 guests

>