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Can devas be kicked out from heaven? - Dhamma Wheel

Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Acid_Trancer
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Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby Acid_Trancer » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:22 pm

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.

Does anyone knows if it is possible that a deva who lifes for example in the formless realm gets kicked out from his
realm because he has become evil or has commited very bad acts, before his lifespan over many aeons runs out and he naturally descends into a lower or realm?

I searcherd on the internet and found nothing on this topic.

Thank you for your replys!

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cooran
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby cooran » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:31 am

Hello Acid_Trancer,

Devas are celestial beings who live in bliss and contentment, having earned such an enviable birth due to merit accrued in past lives. Kamma determines the deva's lifespan, and eventually a deva will die and be reborn again, with the rebirth being determined by kamma. A deva could be reborn in the same realm, a higher realm, or a lower realm-it all depends on the ripening of the deva's karma.

Ask yourself - can you get kicked out of the Human Realm? In just the same way, Devas are born into their Realm and remain there until their death.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Aloka
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby Aloka » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:42 am

Hello all,

Has anyone here actually visited the Deva Realm ? (other than as a mental state)


:anjali:

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cooran
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby cooran » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:55 am

Hello Aloka,

What did the Buddha teach about the Deva Realms?

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Aloka
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby Aloka » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:11 am

Hi Chris,

I know that Deva 'Realms' are mentioned in the suttas, but I also know that some of the teachers from both Theravada and Vajrayana traditions also interpret the Realms in general as metaphors for mental states.

Personally I find them easy to understand as mental states which we all experience at one time or another. To imagine them as other planes of existence floating around somewhere, seems more like the subject of science fiction movies !

...and my original question was had anyone visited the Deva realm, and was not connected to if the Buddha taught about a Deva realm, thanks Chris.

Have you seen it yourself ? I am very curious about this belief and if such a place can be verified by anyone.

with metta,

Aloka

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cooran
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby cooran » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:29 am

Hello Aloka,

Have you seen Nibbana yourself? :jumping:

Perhaps Acid_Trancer (and you) will find these suttas and articles of benefit - just click on the link: –

Devas (celestial beings). See also Kamma; Planes of Existence, Thirty-one; Sagga (heaven).
Citta's deathbed conversation with some ~: SN 41.10
Some ~ gather to see the Buddha on his deathbed: DN 16
A huge gathering of ~ visits the Buddha: DN 20
Conversations with the ~ as a basis for faith: DN 11
Occasions when the ~ raise a cheer for a meditator: Iti 82
Omens that a ~ is about to die: Iti 83
As one of the ten Recollections: see Recollections, ten
Teacher of the Devas (Jootla)
"The Thirty-one Planes of Existence" in the Path to Freedom pages

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html#deva

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Aloka
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby Aloka » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:49 am


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cooran
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby cooran » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:55 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Goofaholix
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:34 am

By Whom?

santa100
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby santa100 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:41 pm

Even on earth, there're so many different "planes" of existence already. A starving child in Africa certainly doesn't exist on the same "plane" with a wealthy child in America. Those of us here who're enjoying the peace of Dhamma discussion are not on the same "plane" with the poor folks in Pakistan, who might get blown up into bits by suicide bomber extremist at any moment. Different planes of mental states will result in different planes of existence sooner or later. Since the devas are very highly evolved beings but still have not completely destroyed all the taints 100% like the Buddha, there's still a chance that some being will make some kind of mistake and "retrogress". Sure, that's a valid possibility...

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SDC
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby SDC » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:52 pm


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icyteru
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby icyteru » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:34 pm

The most complete english tipitaka on the internet world.

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manas
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby manas » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:59 pm

Alot of the ealier suttas contain not only references to Devas, but even many dialogues with them. Considering how we are able to place much faith in the Buddha's words (as recorded in the suttas) in regard to even loftier matters, why not with regards to this?

Some moles cannot see light. That doesn't mean light doesn't exist. But if moles could speak and understand our language, and if we tried to explain 'light' to them, they would just be puzzled, and claim we are talking nonsense. They would probably say, "there's only (this) darkness, everyone knows that!" or something like that. Similarly, most human beings can't perceive the higher, heavenly realms, but that doesn't mean they're not there.

The suttas seem to be right when it comes to so many other things, maybe they are right about this one, too?
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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daverupa
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby daverupa » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:24 pm


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rowboat
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby rowboat » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:46 pm

Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5

schakma94
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby schakma94 » Fri May 06, 2016 1:13 am


befriend
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby befriend » Sun May 08, 2016 6:03 pm

ascetics dont get along with other ascetics because of views. its best to respect others beliefs and to avoid arguments that you know wont lead to anything other than suffering.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

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The Thinker
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Re: Can devas be kicked out from heaven?

Postby The Thinker » Sun May 08, 2016 7:01 pm



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