Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

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Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby plwk » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:46 pm

Image

Protesters burn Bangladesh Buddhist temples... Picture of allegedly desecrated Quran on Facebook blamed for burning of Buddhist homes and places of worship.
More here & 1 2 3 4

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Re: Here we go again...

Postby Indrajala » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:11 pm

Thanks for sharing.

I don't think there is much of a solution available unfortunately, unless the military stepped in to guard these communities, but then Bangladesh is a barely functioning country.
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Re: Here we go again...

Postby Will » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:18 pm

Huseng wrote:Thanks for sharing.

I don't think there is much of a solution available unfortunately, unless the military stepped in to guard these communities, but then Bangladesh is a barely functioning country.


Sure there is a solution, the Islamic one - surrender, capitulate. Most of the leaders of Muslim countries have been advocating that the Western notion of 'freedom of speech' is too free and just a cover for anti-Islamic propaganda. Therefore, the West should give up our nasty, politically incorrect, irritant - freedom of speech.

Simple - Allah knows best.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:05 pm

History is the constant flow of change and change is painful, and within every culture where change occurs rapidly there are those who desperately hold on to things and try to prevent change while there are others who embrace change. It is easy to see that the Arab/Muslim world is currently undergoing big changes, trying to retain its traditions while at the same time being part of the modern world.

Whenever changes happen culturally and politically, there are always people on both the traditionalist side and the evolving side grasping for power and trying to be the ones who get the most followers, the most support and the most power. So, for example, in the Arabic/Muslim scenario you have hardcore Qu'ranists, probably some marxists, some moderate reformers, and even within a large group such as the Muslim Brotherhood, you are going to have rivaling factions. This is what you always see everywhere. In the "Occupy" movement, in the leftist and the rightists. Even in religions. Human behavior is very predictable that way. So, you are going to have those who say "follow us, we are going to take on the United States" and you have others who say "follow us, we are going to take on the blasphemers" and so on.

And depending very much, but not always, on the demographics of the audience, you are going to find certain movements attracting large numbers of people or sometimes small numbers of people who want to commit very big acts, such as burning down towns.

It is really very sad, but from a Buddhist view of suffering it is also not too surprising.
In many ways, I think Buddhism is a philosophy of life based on the study of human motivation. The Buddha looked at why people...all beings...do the things they do, and why they suffer, because they want to realize some fixed concept they have of happiness in a constantly changing and dependently-arising environment.

it is sad that so many people get caught in the crossfire.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:48 pm

Oh, that's simply brilliant: 'an insane Copt and his equally insane buddies pissed us off' - or, if you will, 'we're so very angry at the US and the West which sucks up to the American boss' - 'so we'll destroy some Buddhist temples'. That logic, how irresistble it is. One just has to love the fundamentalist.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Yudron » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:04 am

I just wish I could go help them, right now, today.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Indrajala » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:59 am

Buddhists in the area, in south-east Bangladesh, said their possessions were stolen before their homes were destroyed.

"Before they set fire to my home, they looted everything," said resident Sumoto Barua.

"They took our possessions, money, gold and even computers. Then they torched the house. I am now living under open sky."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19780692

An excuse for theft, too.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby dharmagoat » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:35 am

Angry young men acting out their dissatisfaction. Religion is the backdrop.
May all beings be happy
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Kaji » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:49 am

A side story...

From what I know, one temple destroyed had a secret chamber that stored a large amount of sarira. Some Chinese businessman obtained a number of them, one of which was passed to my cousin-in-law and then to me. A Buddhist friend with a divine eye said it came from an Arhat. With my recent family incident I had to give it away to a Buddhist temple.

The survival of those hidden sarira makes me wonder - did the Dharma protectors help save them? In Chinese Buddhism, there are accounts of Dharma protectors manifesting themselves to defend temples that held great relics.
Namas triya-dhvikānāṃ sarva tathāgatānām!
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:57 pm

dharmagoat wrote:Angry young men acting out their dissatisfaction. Religion is the backdrop.


One partiular religion.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:47 pm

Maybe some hope the government will do something?
http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8541303 ... ists-again
Army soldiers, paramilitary border guards and police were deployed on Monday, and the government has banned all public gatherings in the troubled areas near the southern border with Burma, said Lieutenant Colonel Jaed Hossain, a military commander who was helping to install tents for displaced Buddhists.


I like Rev. Danny Fisher for example but I wonder why he decries the exact same type of events in Burma and posts numerous facebook posts and articles about them, but the only story he posts about Bangladesh,when such major atrocities are happening against practitioners of the dharma, is about a fight between the Prime Minister and the manager of Grameen Bank.

As Buddhists we have to stand against all oppression, including that in Burma. But then to remain silent when the very existence of the Dharma is known to be under threat, and not criticize the atrocities against our Buddhist brothers and sisters seems odd. But maybe he has more equanimity than I.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Azidonis » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:44 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:History is the constant flow of change and change is painful, and within every culture where change occurs rapidly there are those who desperately hold on to things and try to prevent change while there are others who embrace change. It is easy to see that the Arab/Muslim world is currently undergoing big changes, trying to retain its traditions while at the same time being part of the modern world.

Whenever changes happen culturally and politically, there are always people on both the traditionalist side and the evolving side grasping for power and trying to be the ones who get the most followers, the most support and the most power. So, for example, in the Arabic/Muslim scenario you have hardcore Qu'ranists, probably some marxists, some moderate reformers, and even within a large group such as the Muslim Brotherhood, you are going to have rivaling factions. This is what you always see everywhere. In the "Occupy" movement, in the leftist and the rightists. Even in religions. Human behavior is very predictable that way. So, you are going to have those who say "follow us, we are going to take on the United States" and you have others who say "follow us, we are going to take on the blasphemers" and so on.

And depending very much, but not always, on the demographics of the audience, you are going to find certain movements attracting large numbers of people or sometimes small numbers of people who want to commit very big acts, such as burning down towns.

It is really very sad, but from a Buddhist view of suffering it is also not too surprising.
In many ways, I think Buddhism is a philosophy of life based on the study of human motivation. The Buddha looked at why people...all beings...do the things they do, and why they suffer, because they want to realize some fixed concept they have of happiness in a constantly changing and dependently-arising environment.

it is sad that so many people get caught in the crossfire.
.
.
.


Very well put.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby dzoki » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:00 pm

JKhedrup wrote:I like Rev. Danny Fisher for example but I wonder why he decries the exact same type of events in Burma and posts numerous facebook posts and articles about them, but the only story he posts about Bangladesh,when such major atrocities are happening against practitioners of the dharma, is about a fight between the Prime Minister and the manager of Grameen Bank.

As Buddhists we have to stand against all oppression, including that in Burma. But then to remain silent when the very existence of the Dharma is known to be under threat, and not criticize the atrocities against our Buddhist brothers and sisters seems odd. But maybe he has more equanimity than I.


Hint: Political correctness (and fear). We see plenty of it here in EU. If a bunch of young angry muslims beat up some white folks, it is called "cultural differences". If some school, office, etc. does not want to put up islamimc non-sense, for exapmle when one professor would not interrupt his lecture for a muslim students who wanted to make prayers, then it is called "racism and islamofobia". I guess this is where the above attitude might come from.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby JKhedrup » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:16 pm

This double standard that I am seeing is what bothers me the most. Oppression and violence should always be called out. To speak in some instances and not in others is disingenuous. What you mention in your post is very much what I experienced while a university student. Every other people/religion was open to critical examination, except one.
I also feel this does a disservice to Muslims, many of whom suffer oppression at the hands of their own people because of the political correctness of the rest of the world.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:30 pm

JKhedrup wrote:This double standard that I am seeing is what bothers me the most. Oppression and violence should always be called out. To speak in some instances and not in others is disingenuous. What you mention in your post is very much what I experienced while a university student. Every other people/religion was open to critical examination, except one.
I also feel this does a disservice to Muslims, many of whom suffer oppression at the hands of their own people because of the political correctness of the rest of the world.

You make very good points.
I once heard on a call in show on an NPR affiliate, a very intelligent conversation, and the guest on the show (to whom callers could ask questions) was explaining that Islam is, at its core, a peaceful religion but that it was politics, not the Koran which was what was driving (some) Muslims to creates much violence and destruction.

But I had to ask myself (as I was unable to call into the show), "does this mean that as soon as political problems arise, you toss your peaceful religion aside and become violent?" What does that say about the faith you hold in your peaceful belief system? Do Buddhists do this? Do pacifist Quakers do this? No. They have a moral creed of peace and they live by it no matter what happens (or at least they really try hard to!!).

But the funny thing is, Both the Jihadists and "anti-Muslims" do one thing that is exactly the same...they both point to the Koran as the "motivator" of the destructive actions being committed.
The Jihadists say, "we are following the book, what a glorious book it is!!"
and the anti-Muslims say "see what an evil book it is!!"
This effectively takes the burden of responsibility off of those who commit negative acts,
and puts it on a book.
"The book made me do it".
"I was just following orders. ..from a book"

It is just using religion or politics to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions.

So really, I think it doesn't matter if people claim to be following a religion or a political philosophy or whatever.
These are all poor excuses for committing negative actions*.
So, if you blame Islam, or Blame capitalism or blame communism or whatever, it misses the point.
I have never known any violent Muslims, but I have had friends who were either Muslims or from Muslims families
(but, as with many people, they had abandoned religion as being rather stupid)

I think it is all part of the existence of suffering and suffering of existence.

____________________________________

*Sometimes people are coerced or brainwashed into hurting others, but perhaps that is a different situation.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Thrasymachus » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:12 am

This satiric cartoon and piece will clear up the illusions tolerance romantics of Islam portray, here and elsewhere:
The Onion wrote:No One Murdered Because Of This Image Sept. 13, 2012
WASHINGTON—Following the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both ... vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity ... penetrates Buddha ..., reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.


I don't know if that piece will be allowed by moderators, I censored some with [...] and did not post the image, but you can get the gist or click the link. Islam is a totalitarian system that encourages violence, that demands to dominate every second of life, posing as a religion. The difference between Islamic sects are juridical, not religious. Thus its adherents will not accept criticism, satire or attacks without violence and bloodshed in return. But other faiths closer to the Western conception of a religion(unlike Islam) -- have no such problems. This is why you likely never heard of this cartoon by The Onion desecrating figures of four major faiths, till I posted it. But when someone does something similar with Islam you often hear about explosions of violence, pogroms, and many murders -- even if you avoid the media.
Last edited by Thrasymachus on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:27 am

JKhedrup wrote:This double standard that I am seeing is what bothers me the most. Oppression and violence should always be called out. To speak in some instances and not in others is disingenuous. What you mention in your post is very much what I experienced while a university student. Every other people/religion was open to critical examination, except one.
I also feel this does a disservice to Muslims, many of whom suffer oppression at the hands of their own people because of the political correctness of the rest of the world.


Out of the park.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:44 am

Thrasymachus wrote:

Islam is a totalitarian system that encourages violence, that demands to dominate every second of life, posing as a religion. The difference between Islamic sects are juridical, not religious. Thus its adherents will not accept criticism, satire or attacks without violence and bloodshed in return. But other faiths closer to the Western conception of a religion(unlike Islam) -- have no such problems. This is why you likely never heard of this cartoon by The Onion desecrating figures of four major faiths, till I posted it. But when someone does something similar with Islam you often hear about explosions of violence, pogroms, and many murders -- even if you avoid the media.


While there is not a lot I could disagree with in this rather generalized statement,
One could also argue that the Vinaya "demands to dominate every second of life"
and that Buddhism, which holds no belief in a God, is also "posing as a religion".

I am not defending islam here, and I am not saying that one should be tolerant of intolerance.
I just wanted to point out that (to use your word) "aherents" to any group entity can reflect a wide range of people.
All Ku Klux Klan members are Christians, and The Aum Shinrikyo cult was widely reported to be a Buddhist group when it put poison gas into a Tokyo subway.

When we see a crowd of thousands of angry Muslims rioting on TV, shouting "Death to America" we think that this is representative of all Muslims. But when we see thousands of Occupy Wall Street protesters on TV, and sometimes some of them commit destructive actions, do we assume that all Americans hate capitalism? No.

We could read through the Lotus Sutra and conclude that what the Buddha taught was that it is okay to lie to people as long you believe that your motives for doing so are good. We could also accept the Chinese Government's official description of Tibetan Buddhism, as a slave-based theocracy practicing cannibalism, sexual depravity and human sacrifice.

I am not disagreeing with you that there is plenty of material in the Bible/Koran/Torah to justify the claim that Islam or for that matter Christianity or Judaism promote all of the things you describe. if the The Spanish Inquisition wasn't bad enough, adherents of all three religions to this day still mutilate the genitals of their male children (circumcision)!

But I think it is more accurate to see that religion is being used as part of a power struggle, and that this power struggle exists partly because of the rapid changes happening in the Arab/Muslim world, and part of that has to do with how the West (United States, mainly) is viewed --correctly or incorrectly-- as a meddler in Middle Eastern affairs, especially since WW2.

So many of these terrorists and their leaders promote themselves as modern-day Davids taking on Goliath, and this gets a lot of support from people, and a lot of them wave the Koran around, and say 'this is the book that will lead us in a glorious war' or whatever, and this gets them support and financing, sometimes from people you wouldn't expect. The United States supported Osama Bin Laden in his 'glorious war' against the Soviet Union, even importing drugs into America in order to do so.

So, when some stupid video or cartoon comes out, of course this alone is nothing. But it becomes just another thing for people to shout about because in their minds it represents all of the hostility they feel.

It's sort of like when somebody has a lot of suppressed anger or resentment or whatever, and you do some little thing that isn't related to anything at all, and it triggers something and it all comes out and that little thing becomes a big deal even though it is by itself very trivial. And cartoons and videos are so quickly shared on the web, they are the perfect thing to use as a focal point to whip up a crowd, and if the person who whips up the crowd tells the crowd to go burn down a village, maybe that crowd will do it. But why? You can't blame it all on a religion. People are responsible for their own actions. So, you see, modern technology and the internet also has as much to do with what is going on as some old book. The Dharma teaches that everything is interconnected. Maybe Korans and computers don't mix. I don't know.

So it is not enough to simply write off an entire culture as inherently evil, even if you have a list of reasons why that may be true, because anybody can come up with a list.

Aside from that, yes, I think Islam has a lot of screwed up ideas. But a lot of Muslims also feel that way, and just as there have been reformations in Christianity, and also in Judaism, there will be in Islam. There has to be, because people do not want to live oppressed.

And I hope, changes -where needed- will also keep Buddhism up to date. But the problem that all religions face is that on their own, there is no need to ever change. That's why theocratic countries such as Tibet and Afghanistan could go on for centuries looking and operating exactly as they always did, with very little change.

So, my point is that yes, while somebody might say Islam is totally screwed up,
even if that is a fact, that fact is beside the point.
Samsara is what is screwed up. Religion is just another manifestation of samsara.
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby Thrasymachus » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:11 am

I didn't see any demonstrable knowledge about Islam in that text-bomb by Padma, so obviously I stopped reading. I just saw the usual tolerance romantic stuff -- for example before you said you knew muslims and tried to project that into something. But you knew muslims living in the United States where the legal system and court apparatus is not influenced in part or whole by Islamic sharia -- unlike in Islamic countries were people continually kill over Islam. You don't know this difference because you don't have any demonstrable knowledge about Islam. In USA or where you live if you kill to defend Islam you will just to go jail, but in Islamic countries you will be considered a defender of the faith and hero. Here is a great illustration from a video by an Egyptian hidden camera TV show where they pretend that they are an Israeli TV station. The Egyptian Mahometans being pranked act out violently tell they are told the truth:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3504.htm
Just the thought of being interviewed by hated Jewish infidels angered them so much -- especially Israeli ones who humiliated their Egyptian-Arabic ummah so many times on the field of battle.

Obviously you are right that many Buddhists take a fundamentalist approach and you are a case in point. I don't think Buddhist canon or practice has much useful knowledge about interacting or dealing with Islam. Where Islam conquered in South Asia and Central Asia, where there were once Buddhism communities -- there tends to be nothing but Islam now. If you preach loving-kindness and someone else is willing to use a bow, a sword or the gun -- they tend to win. In the centuries of Islamic occupation of Buddhist lands, if Buddhist practice had something in it that better dealt with a so called faith that practices warfare and legal domination -- it would have showed in the historical record.
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Re: Buddhist temples destroyed in Bangladesh.

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:21 am

Thrasymachus wrote:I didn't see any demonstrable knowledge about Islam in that text-bomb by Padma, so obviously I stopped reading.
Yes, obviously.

If I am a classic example of a Buddhist fundamentalist, then Buddhism is in big trouble!!!
:rolling:
I think you obviously stopped reading right before the part near the beginning where I said,
"I am not defending Islam here, and I am not saying that one should be tolerant of intolerance."

If you want my personal opinion of Islam, it is not much different from yours.
To be more precise, children tend to act like their parents. Since God/Allah is the holy "father" of Islam/Christianity/Judaism, and is self admittedly an "angry and jealous God", how can we expect his children to act any differently?
Yet, somehow, some do.
That is my opinion, but I don't think my personal opinion is all that important.

However, since you have so clearly pointed out what is wrong,
then what is your solution?
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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