The Flesh Eye

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.

The Flesh Eye

Postby Son » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:17 am

As many of you know, there are five special eyes. The divine eye, the flesh eye, the dharma eye, the wisdom eye, and the final Buddha eye. In the past, my flesh eye has been opened as a result of continuous meditation, which allows you to perceive things clearly or at a distance. During meditation outside today, my flesh eye opened again and I saw myself, I saw the wooden beams of a porch roof, and I saw people talking casually for a moment.

The reason I'm posting this is to see if anyone has any advice in regards to controlling or manipulating the flesh eye. Enhancing it is not what I'm interested in, however, because my meditation will provide that on its own.

Thanks,
Son of Dhamma.
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Nothing » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:35 am

Can you explain what these different type of eyes are?
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:34 pm

Nothing wrote:Can you explain what these different type of eyes are?


http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Five_eyes
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby pueraeternus » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:22 pm

In Theravada, the five eyes are a slightly different set:

Buddhacakkhu (Buddha eye)
Dhammacakkhu (Dhamma eye)
Samantacakkhu (universal eye)
Dibbacakhu (divine eye)
Panncakkhu (wisdom eye)

It seems the Samantacakkhu is cognate with the Mamsacaksu (flesh eye).

However, in the Pali Suttas, the divine eye is said to also see vast distances and even a thousand world systems. For e.g. Anuruddha's.
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true of false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.

- The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Son » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:10 pm

pueraeternus wrote:In Theravada, the five eyes are a slightly different set:

Buddhacakkhu (Buddha eye)
Dhammacakkhu (Dhamma eye)
Samantacakkhu (universal eye)
Dibbacakhu (divine eye)
Panncakkhu (wisdom eye)

It seems the Samantacakkhu is cognate with the Mamsacaksu (flesh eye).

However, in the Pali Suttas, the divine eye is said to also see vast distances and even a thousand world systems. For e.g. Anuruddha's.


Yes, this is true. They are the five eyes throughout all the Buddha's teaching. What other special visions could there even be?
So, does anyone have knowledge on how to control or manipulate the flesh eye in practice?
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:52 pm

What did Buddha say ?

Commentary on Chapter 18 "One Substance Regarded as Identical"

"Subhuti, what do you think? Does the Tathagata have the flesh eye?"

"So it is, World Honored One. The Tathagata has the flesh eye."

"Subhuti, what do you think? Does the Tathagata have the heavenly eye?"

"So it is, World Honored One. The Tathagata has the heavenly eye."

"Subhuti, what do you think? Does the Tathagata have the wisdom eye?"

"So it is, World Honored One. The Tathagata has the wisdom eye."

"Subhuti, what do you think? Does the Tathagata have the dharma eye?"

"So it is, World Honored One. The Tathagata has the "the dharma eye

"Subhuti, what do you think? Does the Tathagata have the Buddha eye?"

"So it is, World Honored One. The Tathagata has the Buddha eye."

"Subhuti, what do you think? Has the Tathagata spoken of the sand grains in the Ganges River?"

"So it is, World Honored One. The Tathagata has spoken of that sand."

"Subhuti, what do you think? If all the grains of sand in one Ganges River became an equal number of Ganges Rivers, and all the grains of sand in all those Ganges Rivers became that many Buddhalands. Would they be many?"

"Very many, World Honored One."

The Buddha told Subhuti, "All the various thoughts which occur to all the living beings in all those Buddhalands are completely known by the Tathagata. And why? All thoughts are spoken of by the Tathagata as no thoughts, therefore they are called thoughts. For what reason? Subhuti, past thought cannot be got at, present thought cannot be got at, and future thought cannot be got at."

This chapter starts another round to cut off the doubts of the disciples regarding the fruition and the cultivation in Buddhism. Subhuti doubted and thought that as the fruition of his cultivation, the Buddha possesses the Five Eyes, namely the flesh eye, heavenly eye, wisdom eye, Dharma eye and Buddha eye, therefore there should be things which he can see.

1. Flesh eye - to see people and even ghosts and spirits, objects within several miles without physical obstruction, etc.
2. Heavenly eye - to see everything in the heavens.
3. Wisdom eye - to see things whether it is right or wrong, true or false in all Dharma Realms. As an Arhat, he has the wisdom of �no-self? As a Bodhisattva, he has both the wisdom of �no-self?and �no-Dharma?
4. Dharma eye - to see the reality of all phenomena and Dharma, the subtle relationship between true emptiness and wonderful existence.
5. Buddha eye - possessed by Buddha only, to see all things and Dharma perfectly and completely, without any obstruction.

However, the Buddha said that his Five Eyes are not really eyes, and that he sees by using the minds of living beings. Furthermore, there are uncountable living beings in the uncountable worlds, and the Tathagata knows them all, and sees all their different minds, because these beings are in the Tathagata's own mind. Therefore, when a thought arises and the mind of a being moves, it is Tathagata's own mind which moves.

Subhuti doubted again and thought that since a thought in the mind of a being arises and extinguishes, does the Tathagata experience the same? The Buddha replied that the thoughts in the past, present and future could not be got at. By eliminating the concept of time, the Buddha indicated that the mind of a being is fundamentally absolute and has neither birth nor death, which is the same as the Tathagata's mind. This shows that the mind of Buddha and living beings do not differ from one another.

All thoughts refers to what is going on in the minds of all living beings. No thoughts means that they are not the true heart. Therefore they are called thoughts means they are just the ordinary thoughts in people's minds, nothing more.

With respect to the concept of time, what we call the past is already gone, thus the past does not remain. Similarly, what we refer to as the future has not yet arrived, and so it also cannot be got at. For the present, as soon as we speak of the present, it has already passed, so it too does not remain. Those three kinds of thoughts in the minds of living beings are ultimately unobtainable. The Tathagata completely knows the thoughts in the minds of all living beings.

http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/pass ... mond10.htm


Not very helpful huh ? Do you have a personal teacher you could ask ? With all the amazing stuff you experience I would hope you had a teacher to help you . This is very unusual stuff for the average person to deal with. You really need a good teacher to guide you Son. :heart:

:namaste: :namaste:
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:10 pm

If you don't have a in the flesh teacher, why not pray directly to Buddha in meditation to help you ?
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Son » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:30 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:... ... ...
This chapter starts another round to cut off the doubts of the disciples regarding the fruition and the cultivation in Buddhism. Subhuti doubted and thought that as the fruition of his cultivation, the Buddha possesses the Five Eyes, namely the flesh eye, heavenly eye, wisdom eye, Dharma eye and Buddha eye, therefore there should be things which he can see.

1. Flesh eye - to see people and even ghosts and spirits, objects within several miles without physical obstruction, etc.
2. Heavenly eye - to see everything in the heavens.
3. Wisdom eye - to see things whether it is right or wrong, true or false in all Dharma Realms. As an Arhat, he has the wisdom of �no-self? As a Bodhisattva, he has both the wisdom of �no-self?and �no-Dharma?
4. Dharma eye - to see the reality of all phenomena and Dharma, the subtle relationship between true emptiness and wonderful existence.
5. Buddha eye - possessed by Buddha only, to see all things and Dharma perfectly and completely, without any obstruction.

However, the Buddha said that his Five Eyes are not really eyes, and that he sees by using the minds of living beings. Furthermore, there are uncountable living beings in the uncountable worlds, and the Tathagata knows them all, and sees all their different minds, because these beings are in the Tathagata's own mind. Therefore, when a thought arises and the mind of a being moves, it is Tathagata's own mind which moves.

Subhuti doubted again and thought that since a thought in the mind of a being arises and extinguishes, does the Tathagata experience the same? The Buddha replied that the thoughts in the past, present and future could not be got at. By eliminating the concept of time, the Buddha indicated that the mind of a being is fundamentally absolute and has neither birth nor death, which is the same as the Tathagata's mind. This shows that the mind of Buddha and living beings do not differ from one another.

All thoughts refers to what is going on in the minds of all living beings. No thoughts means that they are not the true heart. Therefore they are called thoughts means they are just the ordinary thoughts in people's minds, nothing more.

With respect to the concept of time, what we call the past is already gone, thus the past does not remain. Similarly, what we refer to as the future has not yet arrived, and so it also cannot be got at. For the present, as soon as we speak of the present, it has already passed, so it too does not remain. Those three kinds of thoughts in the minds of living beings are ultimately unobtainable. The Tathagata completely knows the thoughts in the minds of all living beings.

http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/pass ... mond10.htm


Not very helpful huh ? Do you have a personal teacher you could ask ? With all the amazing stuff you experience I would hope you had a teacher to help you . This is very unusual stuff for the average person to deal with. You really need a good teacher to guide you Son. :heart:

:namaste: :namaste:


Thank you. It is an encouraging text. No, I do not have a personal teacher at the moment, which is part of the reason why I have been encouraging my own special vision in recent times. It's also the purpose for this thread I posted. Because the functioning of the flesh eye at this point does require investigation here, and textual sources have not been able to suffice. So I ask if anyone has any experience, or knows of anyone who has experience, or a teacher who has shared anything with them.
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby lobster » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:21 pm

The reason I'm posting this is to see if anyone has any advice in regards to controlling or manipulating the flesh eye. Enhancing it is not what I'm interested in, however, because my meditation will provide that on its own.


Any genuine capacity arises with the means to its usage. :popcorn:
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby Son » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:01 pm

lobster wrote:
The reason I'm posting this is to see if anyone has any advice in regards to controlling or manipulating the flesh eye. Enhancing it is not what I'm interested in, however, because my meditation will provide that on its own.


Any genuine capacity arises with the means to its usage. :popcorn:


Yes, this is true. In this case, focused concentration. The means is there, But I'm looking for details on how to direct myself to control it with this means.
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Re: The Flesh Eye

Postby lobster » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:56 am

If you have no legitimate usage, no details will arise.
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