Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happening..
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Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happening..
Hi,
I'm fairly new to meditation but I have been doing it off and on for a few months in between and that too only for a few days. I have also attended the 10 day vipassana retreat with a friend but I was not really serious then,it was just an outing with a friend who was really into this and I figured it would be a different experience and might help in overcoming my depression. It was kind of an energy drain on me and I was unwell for a few weeks after it ended. It was my first foray into any kind of meditation and i had never done anything prior to that. I did feel some sensations but they were not really acute or anything. I took up meditation again some time back- a few weeks or so and focused on my breath as was taught in the camp. The sensations didn't come back but after a while, I felt as if my eyes were fluttering or some lights were blinking,kinda like when you turn a tube light on and it flickers for a bit. It was very subtle but I could feel a switch and my mind really relaxed after that though only for a few seconds.
After this happened, I figured I was really on to something haha and tried to bring my mind to that flickering blinking lights state again but wasn't that successful. It worked some days and not on others. My friend told me that it was a distraction and not to focus on it. After those few days, I stopped meditating. Just got busy I guess.
I started meditation again a few days back and this time instead of the lights thing that i used to feel earlier, sometimes when i really became relaxed and was able to sit for a longer duration,i felt a really calm feeling that came over me and though my eyes were closed, there was a subtle light that i felt or saw. It wasn't too bright but it was there. Also, my mind was not really all that quiet coz I felt myself thinking that I have reached this state and I should try to hold on to it. I had this state both while sitting and while lying down.Two days back, I started my meditation and after a while, I heard a high pitched tone like when you tune something,a really long beep in my right ear.I would like to mention that when i was younger, I used to feel pressure on me while sleeping and after being afraid of those experiences for some years, I found over the net that it was a symptom of sleep paralysis which was a relief to me coz it meant i was not crazy.Anyways,whenever that happened,this beep sound was also present.
So when this same sound happened while meditation, I was afraid coz of the bad past experience and couldn't sleep at all. I was restless the entire night and early morning, I played some chants on youtube to relax me. I started chanting OM because I connect more to it than any other chats personally.
I avoided lying on my back coz that triggers the sleep paralysis thing so I was lying down on my side.
After chanting, I was just breathing deeply and my mind kinda drifted when all of a sudden, I felt a wave of something pass over me. I was not as afraid as I used to be when i was younger so i tried to let it pass and not fight it too hard like i used to do when i was younger. There was no pressure this time but it was a little intense and warm and was spreading out towards my hands and feet.It didn't seem like stopping anytime so I tried to move my body out of it but I could not even open my eyes. I wanna emphasize that I did not fall asleep or had dreamt about all this. After a while, the wave broke suddenly and I was able to open my eyes. The feeling of fear and restlessness that I had all night lifted off completely as well.
anyways, i read up on the net about a lot of theories and I personally feel that i'm not that advanced in my practice to have felt what people mentioned there and i'm a little skeptical as well. Maybe I was really dreaming or hallucinating,i don't know now...
i found about this website so wanted to post about my experience here as well to make sense of it and to get some explanation and advice. thank you for reading this long post and I would appreciate your help.
PS- Please ignore grammar issues,I tried...
I'm fairly new to meditation but I have been doing it off and on for a few months in between and that too only for a few days. I have also attended the 10 day vipassana retreat with a friend but I was not really serious then,it was just an outing with a friend who was really into this and I figured it would be a different experience and might help in overcoming my depression. It was kind of an energy drain on me and I was unwell for a few weeks after it ended. It was my first foray into any kind of meditation and i had never done anything prior to that. I did feel some sensations but they were not really acute or anything. I took up meditation again some time back- a few weeks or so and focused on my breath as was taught in the camp. The sensations didn't come back but after a while, I felt as if my eyes were fluttering or some lights were blinking,kinda like when you turn a tube light on and it flickers for a bit. It was very subtle but I could feel a switch and my mind really relaxed after that though only for a few seconds.
After this happened, I figured I was really on to something haha and tried to bring my mind to that flickering blinking lights state again but wasn't that successful. It worked some days and not on others. My friend told me that it was a distraction and not to focus on it. After those few days, I stopped meditating. Just got busy I guess.
I started meditation again a few days back and this time instead of the lights thing that i used to feel earlier, sometimes when i really became relaxed and was able to sit for a longer duration,i felt a really calm feeling that came over me and though my eyes were closed, there was a subtle light that i felt or saw. It wasn't too bright but it was there. Also, my mind was not really all that quiet coz I felt myself thinking that I have reached this state and I should try to hold on to it. I had this state both while sitting and while lying down.Two days back, I started my meditation and after a while, I heard a high pitched tone like when you tune something,a really long beep in my right ear.I would like to mention that when i was younger, I used to feel pressure on me while sleeping and after being afraid of those experiences for some years, I found over the net that it was a symptom of sleep paralysis which was a relief to me coz it meant i was not crazy.Anyways,whenever that happened,this beep sound was also present.
So when this same sound happened while meditation, I was afraid coz of the bad past experience and couldn't sleep at all. I was restless the entire night and early morning, I played some chants on youtube to relax me. I started chanting OM because I connect more to it than any other chats personally.
I avoided lying on my back coz that triggers the sleep paralysis thing so I was lying down on my side.
After chanting, I was just breathing deeply and my mind kinda drifted when all of a sudden, I felt a wave of something pass over me. I was not as afraid as I used to be when i was younger so i tried to let it pass and not fight it too hard like i used to do when i was younger. There was no pressure this time but it was a little intense and warm and was spreading out towards my hands and feet.It didn't seem like stopping anytime so I tried to move my body out of it but I could not even open my eyes. I wanna emphasize that I did not fall asleep or had dreamt about all this. After a while, the wave broke suddenly and I was able to open my eyes. The feeling of fear and restlessness that I had all night lifted off completely as well.
anyways, i read up on the net about a lot of theories and I personally feel that i'm not that advanced in my practice to have felt what people mentioned there and i'm a little skeptical as well. Maybe I was really dreaming or hallucinating,i don't know now...
i found about this website so wanted to post about my experience here as well to make sense of it and to get some explanation and advice. thank you for reading this long post and I would appreciate your help.
PS- Please ignore grammar issues,I tried...
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
These types of experiences occur with meditation. Your friend was right, the best thing is to just keep with the practice and do not grasp at the experiences, otherwise they can potentially become a distraction. If you feel kinesthetic or tactile energetic movement in the body, subtle pressure in the head or elsewhere, visual phenomena like lights or even hallucinations, even strange auditory phenomena such as the sound you mentioned... these things are normal. All of that phenomena is called 'nyam' in Tibetan, they are just passing meditational experiences.
Some traditions refer to the lights you are seeing with closed eyes (you can also meditate with your eyes open, or slightly open, just FYI) as 'nmitta'. If you research the jhanas (or dhyanas) you will find that nmittas are an integral part of the jhanic strata.
Some traditions refer to the lights you are seeing with closed eyes (you can also meditate with your eyes open, or slightly open, just FYI) as 'nmitta'. If you research the jhanas (or dhyanas) you will find that nmittas are an integral part of the jhanic strata.
Last edited by krodha on Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
nimitta is different than what was described.asunthatneversets wrote: Some traditions refer to the lights you are seeing with closed eyes (you can also meditate with your eyes open, or slightly open, just FYI) as 'nmitta'. If you research the jhanas (or dhyanas) you will find that nmittas are an integral part of the jhanic strata.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Perhaps, I am admittedly unfamiliar with jhanas and nimittas... though chakawhirl's description sounds a lot like it:kirtu wrote:nimitta is different than what was described.
Kirt
From Ajahn Brahm:chakawhirl wrote:I started meditation again a few days back and this time instead of the lights thing that i used to feel earlier, sometimes when i really became relaxed and was able to sit for a longer duration,i felt a really calm feeling that came over me and though my eyes were closed, there was a subtle light that i felt or saw. It wasn't too bright but it was there.
Nimitta, in the context used here, refers to the beautiful "lights" that appear in the mind. I would point out, though, that the nimittas are not visual objects, in that they are not seen through the sense of sight. At this stage of the meditation, the sense of sight is not operating. The nimittas are pure mental objects, known by the mind sense. However, they are commonly perceived as lights...
SUITABLE NIMITTA AND USELESS NIMITTA
It is very helpful to cultivate nimitta of the sort perceived as a light. These "light nimittas" are the best vehicle for transporting the meditator into the Jhanas. However, it is just possible, but rarely done, to enter a Jhana by using "feeling nimittas" instead. By this I mean that one sees no lights in the mind, instead one experiences a feeling of bliss in the mind. It is important to note that the sense of touch has been transcended and such a "feeling" of bliss is experienced completely by the mind sense. It is a pure mental object again, but perceived as relating closely to a physical feeling of bliss. This is a bona-fide nimitta. But it is much more difficult to work with such as a nimitta to gain access to Jhana, though it is not impossible. For these reasons, it is recommended to cultivate the light nimitta if one aspires for the Jhana.
There are some visual nimittas that are of no use on the path into Jhana. It is helpful to know these "useless" nimitta so that one will waste no time with them.
Visions: Sometimes whole scenes can appear clearly in the mind. There might be landscapes, buildings and people. They may appear familiar or strange. It might be fascinating to watch such visions, but they are of little use. Moreover, they are meaningless and one should certainly not take them as some revelation of truth! Experience shows that visions arising at this stage are notoriously deceptive and completely untrustworthy. If one likes to waste time, one can linger on them a while. But the recommended thing to do is to remove all interest and go back to the beautiful breath. Such complex nimitta are merely a reflection of an overcomplicated mind. The mind should have been calmed into simplicity much more effectively before letting go of the breath. When one sustains the attention on the beautiful breath, uninterrupted for long periods of time, then one is training in simplicity. Then when the breath disappears, a simple unified nimitta arises, one that is suitable for progress.
The Firework Nimitta: A less elaborate nimitta, which is still overcomplicated, can be called the "firework nimitta." As the name suggests, this consists of many bursts of light coming and going, never lasting long and exhibiting much movement. There may be several bursts of light at the same time, even of different colors. Again, this firework nimitta is a sign that the mind is still too complicated and very unstable. If one wants, one can enjoy the sideshow for a short time, but one should not waste too much time there. One should ignore all the razzele-dazzele of the firework nimitta, return to the breath, and develop more one-pointedness and calm.
The Shy Nimitta: The next type of nimitta can be called the "shy nimitta," a single pure light that flashes up quickly and then disappears. After a few moments, it flashes up again. Each time, it lasts only a second or two. Such a nimitta is much more encouraging. Its simplicity shows that the mind is one-pointed. Its power is a sign that pitisukha is strong. But its inability to remain after breaking through into consciousness shows that the level of calm is not quite enough. In such a situation, one need not return to the beautiful breath yet. Instead, one patiently waits, developing more calm, allowing the mind to become more receptive to the very shy nimitta. As will be explained at greater length later, this nimitta disappears because the mind overreacts to its arrival, usually with excitement or fear. By establishing more solid calm and having the confidence to not react at all, the shy nimitta returns and stays longer each time. Soon, such a nimitta loses its shyness and, feeling accepted within the mind's calmness, remains a long time. One should attempt this approach first; But if the nimitta continues being "shy," with no indication that it is remaining longer, then one should return to the beautiful breath and ignore the shy nimitta. When one has built more tranquility of mind with the beautiful breath, then one can return to the shy nimitta to see if it will establish itself this time.
The Point Nimitta: Another type of nimitta is the "point nimitta," a simple and powerful light, but ever so small, which persists many seconds. This nimitta can be very useful. It shows that one-pointedness is excellent, calm is sufficient, but pitisukha is still a bit lacking. However, all one needs to. do is gently look deeper into the point nimitta, letting mindfulness zero in, then it appears as if one's awareness comes closer to this nimitta and its size starts to increase. As it expands a little, one should keep one's focus on the center, not on the edges, nor beyond the edges. By maintaining the mind's focus sharply on the center of the point nimitta, it increases power, it grows in pitisukha. Soon the nimitta unfolds into the best nimitta of all.
The Best Nimitta: The best nimitta of all, that which is the most suitable for Jhanas, begins as being similar to the full moon at midnight in a sky free of clouds. It rises unhurried when the beautiful breath softly disappears. It takes three or four seconds to establish its presence and settle down, remaining still and very beautiful before the mind's eye. As it remains without effort it grows brighter, more luminous. Soon it appears brighter than the sun at midday, radiating bliss. It becomes, by far, the most beautiful thing one has ever seen. Its beauty and power will often feel more than one can bear. One wonders whether one can take so much bliss of such extreme power. But one can. There's no limit to the bliss one can feel. The nimitta explodes, drowning one in even more bliss, or one dives into the center of the radiating ecstasy. If one remains there, it is Jhana.
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... s.htm#PART
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Research the terms 'tinnitus' and 'rigors'/'hot flash' and 'phosphenes' and see if these sorts of phenomenological events describe the bulk of your symptoms.
That these symptoms triggered a memory and then fear can of course happen, but they are therefore downstream results and not additional symptoms, so no need to be particularly worried over them I think.
That these symptoms triggered a memory and then fear can of course happen, but they are therefore downstream results and not additional symptoms, so no need to be particularly worried over them I think.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Though these explanations would be placing the experience in the context of how materialist science explains this type of phenomena. The point of meditation in general is to work towards freeing oneself from the rigidity of such constructs (which isn't to say we should throw all caution to the wind and ignore relative physical ailments, for if we are truly afflicted with something we should of course seek medical attention).daverupa wrote:Research the terms 'tinnitus' and 'rigors'/'hot flash' and 'phosphenes' and see if these sorts of phenomenological events describe the bulk of your symptoms.
When it comes to these subtle meditational experiences, turning to the modern physicalist-materialist paradigm to identify and place them into neat little boxes is (i) grasping at those experiences, and (ii) simply breathing life into the very conditioned world views that the buddhadharma is aiming to reveal as ultimately unreal abstraction.
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Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Hi,daverupa wrote:Research the terms 'tinnitus' and 'rigors'/'hot flash' and 'phosphenes' and see if these sorts of phenomenological events describe the bulk of your symptoms.
That these symptoms triggered a memory and then fear can of course happen, but they are therefore downstream results and not additional symptoms, so no need to be particularly worried over them I think.
Thank you for your reply! I know about tinnitus already coz I had looked it up when i had wanted to make sense of my sleep paralysis symptoms and it clicked and fit the events. this was how i was able to overcome my fear initially coz it all made sense logically and that i was obviously over thinking it after reading up wild theories over the net. this tinnitus though only followed along with the sleep paralysis or that feeling of pressure. This time, I was in meditation and the tone came before any kind of pressure -kinda like a high frequency sound or something and then i got that calm feeling in my mind. Later, when i thought about it, somehow it triggered my fear and made me extremely restless.
also,on rigors/hot flash- i did not feel any excessive shaking or sweating. it was subtle but rising and rushing,started from the spine i think and had a certain warmth to it but not that hot to make me sweat or shake, i was unable to break it or even open my eyes. Kind of like sleep paralysis but i was fully awake. also,it affected my hearing somehow for that duration.
The phosphenes actually make sense and am glad i read up on it. This light comes when my breathing really slows down or like i'm not even breathing or someone else is breathing and then suddenly,there's a light...i don't actually see it coz my eyes are closed but its like when you are sitting in a dark room with your eyes closed and someone turns on the light, you are somehow able to perceive this light with eyes closed. its bright but not too bright and It brings about a real calm feeling or stability that i have never felt before and i like it I am not able to hold on to it though and after a few seconds or so,the feeling goes away.
I appreciate your suggestions and thank you for taking out the time. i just wanted to make sure that these are common occurrences in meditation or if i really need to visit a doctor. I have not had another episode of sleep paralysis for a few years now and somehow, the meditation triggered something similar to it which makes me wary of practicing it daily honestly.
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Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
hi,asunthatneversets wrote:These types of experiences occur with meditation. Your friend was right, the best thing is to just keep with the practice and do not grasp at the experiences, otherwise they can potentially become a distraction. If you feel kinesthetic or tactile energetic movement in the body, subtle pressure in the head or elsewhere, visual phenomena like lights or even hallucinations, even strange auditory phenomena such as the sound you mentioned... these things are normal. All of that phenomena is called 'nyam' in Tibetan, they are just passing meditational experiences.
Some traditions refer to the lights you are seeing with closed eyes (you can also meditate with your eyes open, or slightly open, just FYI) as 'nmitta'. If you research the jhanas (or dhyanas) you will find that nmittas are an integral part of the jhanic strata.
Thank you for your replies! I understand about being distracted. My friend describes it as over thinking or over analyzing or having a certain expectation that some event is bound to occur which takes away from the practice rather than just being there and simply observing ,accepting and moving on.
This was why I was not able to meditate properly a few months back coz i always anticipated the feeling of calmness that would come over if i managed to sit long enough. I was having a hard time just being in the moment.
This past week when i started on it again, I made it a point just to sit calmly and observe. I was not concentrating extra hard but just sitting which was really tough and still is.There's a point when on a few of these days,instead of feeling restless,i was able to really calm down coz my breathing really slowed down,i was able to breathe more freely coz my nose was no longer blocked and then suddenly that light washes over me and i get a feeling of being really calm,still and stable.It just lasts a few seconds i think but it feels good and really peaceful.
Now that i've felt it,i'm afraid that i will anticipate this thing whenever i meditate again and it will become a distraction.I'm doing meditation to overcome my depression and to be more energetic and disciplined.I hope that regular practice will make me more good at just being there.
I don't know about the terms that you mentioned so i would definitely look it up and do more research on it. Thank you for taking out the time and answering my queries. I really appreciate it!
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Welcome to the forum.
I think daverupa really hit the nail on the head with phosphenes. Also sinus activity is another cause for peculiar goings on during meditation - whispering, clicking, whooshing, popping and whining can all come from the sinus. Mistaking these things as something special, focusing on them or trying to make them the focus of your meditation illustrates the importance of the need for a teacher. Also it is a symptom of going too fast. Meditation is great but too much too soon can have a negative effect.
My advice would be to find a local group preferably with a reputable teacher to help guide you. And as your friend and others on this thread have said, do not focus on these sensations that arise.
Best of luck
Gassho,
Seishin
I think daverupa really hit the nail on the head with phosphenes. Also sinus activity is another cause for peculiar goings on during meditation - whispering, clicking, whooshing, popping and whining can all come from the sinus. Mistaking these things as something special, focusing on them or trying to make them the focus of your meditation illustrates the importance of the need for a teacher. Also it is a symptom of going too fast. Meditation is great but too much too soon can have a negative effect.
My advice would be to find a local group preferably with a reputable teacher to help guide you. And as your friend and others on this thread have said, do not focus on these sensations that arise.
Best of luck
Gassho,
Seishin
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Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Consider supplementing your meditation with St. John's Wort, Semde and Vitamin B Complex.chakrawhirl wrote:I'm doing meditation to overcome my depression and to be more energetic and disciplined.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
It might also be a good idea to see a doctor just in case your ears need syringing etc
.
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Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.
~ Tilopa
~ Tilopa
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Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Hi,Seishin wrote:Welcome to the forum.
Mistaking these things as something special, focusing on them or trying to make them the focus of your meditation illustrates the importance of the need for a teacher. Also it is a symptom of going too fast. Meditation is great but too much too soon can have a negative effect.
My advice would be to find a local group preferably with a reputable teacher to help guide you. And as your friend and others on this thread have said, do not focus on these sensations that arise.
Best of luck
Gassho,
Seishin
Thank you for your reply and advice! I will look up a local group to guide me and try not to dwell too much on these sensations or to make a mountain of a mole hill . I think it just spooked me a bit coz i'm not that experienced so I was unable to let it go that easily. I guess regular practice is the key.
I'm going to research on the internet but I would appreciate if you all can point me to material I may find beneficial or reputable listings/websites where I can find good groups or teachers.
I'm also planning to visit a doctor to get a checkup and to get medications that address some of my symptoms if required.
Thank you to everyone who took out the time to answer my queries and guide me! Be happy!
Re: Questions about meditation-Please explain what's happeni
Hi. Just stick to the instructions . Meditation is not about getting some high or some kind of particular experience, but its about cultivating mental balance and other positive qualities. If you are practicing shamata focusing on the breath then all other sensations are probably distractions. This doesnt mean that you should get upset by them, just notice them and go back gently to the object of attention.
I cant relate to your post because when i started meditating i was self taught and ive came from a drug background so i was definitely looking for some type of expirience. And at first weird experiences did arise and i got attached to them but eventually with study and practice i began to understand what buddhadharma is about, and that is to get rid of suffering and its causes. So i guess it helps to have some kind of theoretical background to understand how that process works.
Just keep practicing without much expectations, if you have a teacher its better!
I cant relate to your post because when i started meditating i was self taught and ive came from a drug background so i was definitely looking for some type of expirience. And at first weird experiences did arise and i got attached to them but eventually with study and practice i began to understand what buddhadharma is about, and that is to get rid of suffering and its causes. So i guess it helps to have some kind of theoretical background to understand how that process works.
Just keep practicing without much expectations, if you have a teacher its better!