These sound worlds apart. Hopefully we all know that most people subconsciously repress thoughts that have been judged to be negative or useless, although habitually failing to suppress thoughts will clearly make for a mixed blessing on the Path (and may partly account for the bias towards those with mental problems among the sub-set of people who are attracted to meditation ). For me atleast, the difference with shamatha/vipassana is that in order to practice you have to accept that if there is no substantial Self to be gained or lost by following thoughts, then there is no need to follow or repress any of them during the session, and no use in following thoughts so far as to really get lost in them at any other time. {In my experience atleast, most of the pain caused by the kind of thoughts people tend to repress comes from ego's sense that unrepressed 'negative' thoughts will warn of or (alternatively) lead to the destruction of Self.letting them go can sound allright but not understanding how to do it you might actually repress your thoughts and that is not meditation.
becoming aware of this inner surveillance is a real key to meditation and making the mind more clarified and more open and free.
To develop enough 'inner surveillance' to penetrate to the roots of one's mental habits, on the other hand, sounds like the result of long-term meditation to say the very least [/quote]
im a bit interested in it that how can you generate a stable understanding or realization that is effortless and you dont have to give it a second thought that there is no substantial self. i see that there is not a substantial self but at the same time i believe there is. because it is so deeply ingrained. and i think this is much bigger accomplishment in meditation because it equals to cutting the root of samsara. and i think with awareness of this automatic inner surveillance and acceptance of everything that happens in the mind space. you will at least become conscious of your mental habits in considerably short amount of time. about cutting them completely i have no idea. can you even cut them or do you just replace them.
anyway, simple breath meditation just doesnt do the trick for me. i need this awareness of the inner surveillance and i think it should be included as a part of the meditation teachings for stupid students like me who understand that when they say '' just follow your breath'' you just do that and nothing else. as a result you loose awareness of whats happening and are ignoring your inner space. and also if you want to achieve real benefits from meditation, after and with this awareness of the inner space combined with breathing of course comes the acceptance part where you start to actually make peace and acceptance with the mind space or yourself or whatevers in there. and if this doesnt take place while only focusing on samatha and stilling the mind while breathing. you can achieve levels of concentration but i think at the same time you are forgetting the psychological nature of your mind and it wont make it a more fertile ground for positive qualities to grow in. allthough i can be wrong on this, there might and possible are other ways and simple samatha might work for some beings but for me this approach lets me purify and deal and become more ever of the mind content and stuff much more effectively.
anyway maybe talk more next time, let me know what you think so we and especially i can learn and get new perspectives. thanks