Physical Phenomena When Meditating

[Motova]

Sometimes when I do a simple mindfulness meditation I notice some of the parts of my body may experience bouts of heat (mostly my feet), twitching, and tingling that starts from the back and spreads out to other parts (kinda feels like uncorking a champagne bottle in my body). High emotional states usually trigger the champagne (but not always). The first two occur a lot less than the latter.

Thoughts?



/Dylan

[Johnny Dangerous]

Lot's of stuff happens, some can be really intense, just roll with it..personally i've run into all kinds of truly bizarre stuff that has nearly made me stop, but in every case I was told to just keep going and try to purify my intent in practice and rouse Bodhitcitta..so far it's good advice.

[TaTa]

Try to pass trough all kind of experiences with equanimity and bodichitta. That's what i have been told and seems to work so far

[Motova]

Thank you two for the great advice, I've come to know this to be true from my own experience. Very wise words.



/Dylan

[Jeff]

Sometimes when I do a simple mindfulness meditation I notice some of the parts of my body may experience bouts of heat (mostly my feet), twitching, and tingling that starts from the back and spreads out to other parts (kinda feels like uncorking a champagne bottle in my body). High emotional states usually trigger the champagne (but not always). The first two occur a lot less than the latter.

Thoughts?



/Dylan

Hi Motova,

Many energy focused traditions would say that you are beginning to feel/notice the "energy body" or the flow of energy through the body. Sensations are usually first noticed as heat (or cold) and then often increasingly fine sense of vibrations (champagne bubbles). In those traditions, issues/fears are stored as energy "obstructions". As those emotional issues are "let go", the flow "increases". It is sort of an ongoing feeling in the body of "clearing" your mind of stored stuff. Deep issues in the subconscious can cause major jerks/spasms (which many call kundalini).

Best wishes on your path.

Jeff

[oushi]

Sometimes when I do a simple mindfulness meditation I notice some of the parts of my body may experience bouts of heat (mostly my feet), twitching, and tingling that starts from the back and spreads out to other parts (kinda feels like uncorking a champagne bottle in my body). High emotional states usually trigger the champagne (but not always). The first two occur a lot less than the latter.

Thoughts?



/Dylan

It may trigger or kind of thoughts, but it's not about thoughts right? It could mean anything, but what's the point in creating ideas about it?
The question is: do you let those things be, or rather you desire to know them, understand them and grasp them? You ask, so...

When our mind becomes calm, it is sensitive. Those things were probably happening before, but you simply were not able to notice them.

[Motova]

The question is: do you let those things be, or rather you desire to know them, understand them and grasp them? You ask, so...

Thanks, I needed to hear something like this.



/Dylan

[Johnny Dangerous]

Of course take my advice with a grain of salt...

But seriously, Buddhist meditation isn't about collecting experiences I don't think, if you enter into with this in mind, you will stray somewhere you don't want to.

[Motova]

Of course take my advice with a grain of salt...

But seriously, Buddhist meditation isn't about collecting experiences I don't think, if you enter into with this in mind, you will stray somewhere you don't want to.

I never implied such, it's about transforming one's mind for the benefit of all sentient beings.



/Dylan

[Johnny Dangerous]

Well, a bunch of your posts mention psychic phenomena, paranormal experiences etc. I understand the desire to get answers for that stuff but this is not the stuff that should motivate mediation practice I think, if you start from this place you will end up somewhere weird, you set up expectations for yourself that have nothing at all to do with the motivation for what you are doing. Don't know what you experiences are like so far, but expectations and fears about meditation are one of the biggest things I have had to work on, and from what I understand this is a big deal generally. It can quickly turn into an exercise of trying to collect unique experiences - which isn't good. The more of these things I build up the more they obstruct the actual practice. You can take the advice or leave it, but it's offered in good faith, and from personal experience, not in a spirit of wanting to criticize.

It's also nothing new, this is the advice i've received from authority figures, and from books by well known teachers when I had similar experiences.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Something to add:

Alot of what you've described so far has been either neutral or pleasant, you can (and probably will) have experiences that are really unpleasant and difficult too, again it shows the importance of having neither attachment nor aversion to what you are doing. That's one of the reasons it's good to have a teacher or spiritual friend, or better yet a sangha containing both that you actually know somewhat for questions like this, in addition to communities like DW. People who you have a personal relationship with can steer you in a way that no one on here can. You really don't want to butt up against some of the more unpleasant experiences without the direct support of some kind of mentor I think..and this is perhaps the reason that a lot of people on here are urging caution in some of these posts. Could be wrong though, just (mildly) educated guessing.

When I first started on here it would irritate me to no end when people said "get a teacher" (mainly because I already had one), but it is actually really good advice for the majority of question..for stuff like what you are asking DW can only be supplemental really, IMO of course.

[alpha]

Of course take my advice with a grain of salt...

But seriously, Buddhist meditation isn't about collecting experiences I don't think, if you enter into with this in mind, you will stray somewhere you don't want to.

I never implied such, it's about transforming one's mind for the benefit of all sentient beings.



/Dylan

But the "transformation" of that mind can also be done via experiences.
Exactly those experiences you are having.
In some approaches experiences are seen as something we should let go and not take too much interest in.And this is said because in those approaches there is no knowledge of how the experiences speak of the energy side of our existence.
In dzogchen or in mahamudra with the right view you can discover your nature via these exact experiences.
Because nature of our mind is more obvious when we have these experiences.
But you need someone to guide you about how to use these experiences as the path.

[Motova]

Well, a bunch of your posts mention psychic phenomena, paranormal experiences etc. I understand the desire to get answers for that stuff but this is not the stuff that should motivate mediation practice I think, if you start from this place you will end up somewhere weird, you set up expectations for yourself that have nothing at all to do with the motivation for what you are doing. Don't know what you experiences are like so far, but expectations and fears about meditation are one of the biggest things I have had to work on, and from what I understand this is a big deal generally. It can quickly turn into an exercise of trying to collect unique experiences - which isn't good. The more of these things I build up the more they obstruct the actual practice. You can take the advice or leave it, but it's offered in good faith, and from personal experience, not in a spirit of wanting to criticize.

It's also nothing new, this is the advice i've received from authority figures, and from books by well known teachers when I had similar experiences.

I agree, grasping at experiences is something I have to work on. My posts have mainly been about said things because I'm interested in them and that they are a regular part of my life. But I am also interested in the Dharma and I wish to progress just as much as any of you do. I understand attraction/attachment to said experiences can be the downfall of one's path, but it's not just like flipping a switch - you have to take it bit by bit.

Would you rather me not ask questions and be in a state of ignorance? I want to hear from your experiences. I want you to tell me what I am doing wrong. I want you to reflect the dharma to me. I'm fairly new to Buddhism and Vajrayana (almost 8 months), so I'm going to bring to the table what I feel comfortable with sharing. In my present state I don't feel comfortable debating philosophical points because I am simply not advanced enough and don't have a guru. I don't want to become attached to said phenomena, but that doesn't mean I don't want to know what I am experiencing. Besides wouldn't you get merit for steering me on the right path? I'm here to learn, reflect, and develop - do you assume otherwise?

I acknowledge I need a guru, I've love one! But for now, ya'll are the next best thing.



/Dylan

[Andrew108]

If you are interested in the dharma then the first important step is to understand what is meant by 'no-self'. So this is a key point that is in all traditions of buddhism. If you want to do some study about this then ask away for references and then get down to your local library or bookstore. If you acknowledge or are inspired by the strange truth of 'no-self' then this is the first step towards taking refuge as a buddhist. You don't have to believe that 'no-self' is the only thing, but it is important to feel curious about it and perhaps be annoyed by it and inspired by it at the same time. To investigate the implications of 'non-self' is where all buddhists start. This is the beginning of the path.
Meditation isn't what comes first. First you listen and reflect. Then you meditate. Then meditation is an open pipe through which the view of what you have heard flows. Meditation is not about creating new things. Meditation is just being in the view that you have reflected on.
So the first step is to understand what is meant by the 'five skandhas' and to investigate whether there is a 'self' in the skandhas and to bring this investigation into your experience through meditation. That is kind of the first and continuous step. It's continuous because the understanding experienced here becomes the core of any future understanding.
I hope you read my posts carefully and don't dismiss them because either they are too long or you think I am critical of you. I'm not critical of you at all.

[Johnny Dangerous]

It's not that you shouldn't ask the questions really, it's that (no offense here), most of your questions don't really have a valid answer in Buddhist context. Buddhism is not about purposely developing or trying to 'figure out' psychic abilities, to understand how paranormal phenomena exist etc. If you are really just interested in Buddhism, and have no teacher, or cannot find a teacher..Then the thing to do is read some books on how to meditate and start a daily practice (probably) of calm abiding and insight, just sitting, whatever and then try to get what advice you can on these things. Paranormal stuff is interesting sure, but when you focus on this stuff as having anything to do with progress or lack of it you are missing the boat.

I can recommend a few books I like, and i'm sure others can too..again though, all the paranormal stuff is going nowhere I think.. you should leave that behind and just get meditation advice, rather than trying to figure out what a third eye is, whether yours works right..whatever..again it totally misses the point. Before you get to any whacked, crazy stuff there is some basic work to do anyway, and some argue the basic work is where it's at in the end. The whole act of trying to figure out what your experiences "mean" is kind of outside the purpose of Buddhist meditation, and this is why I'd say read some basic books on Mahayana or something if you can't find a teacher.

If you are ready to get into philosophy a bit, the book A Profound Mind by HHDL really was great for me, it also has some very basic meditation advice.

Again, not trying to be harsh..but if you are looking for "progression" or honest advice on meditation, the paranormal questions won't get it for you...they are more likely to just cause fun arguments between Dharmawheel members lol. Anyway, I am trying to steer you on the right path as much as I know how, i'm no expert either..I do know though that virtually every meditation authority I know of (Buddhist meditation at least) does not recommend focusing on the kinds of experiences you are having of and withing themselves, they are just part of meditation.

Can I suggest, if you are interested in just discussing the paranormal stuff, there is a forum for topics like that, and some people (myself included) would probably find those kinds of subjects interesting, the thing is that here you are trying to connect concern with what paranormal stuff "means" in terms of Buddhist meditation, whereas if you learned a bit of the philosophy (namely basic grasp of Anatta/Sunyata/etc.) you would see, the question of what they "mean" is patently meaningless! So basically..Andrew is right!

[Motova]

It's not that you shouldn't ask the questions really, it's that (no offense here), most of your questions don't really have a valid answer in Buddhist context. Buddhism is not about purposely developing or trying to 'figure out' psychic abilities, to understand how paranormal phenomena exist etc. If you are really just interested in Buddhism, and have no teacher, or cannot find a teacher..Then the thing to do is read some books on how to meditate and start a daily practice (probably) of calm abiding and insight, just sitting, whatever and then try to get what advice you can on these things. Paranormal stuff is interesting sure, but when you focus on this stuff as having anything to do with progress or lack of it you are missing the boat.

I can recommend a few books I like, and i'm sure others can too..again though, all the paranormal stuff is going nowhere I think.. you should leave that behind and just get meditation advice, rather than trying to figure out what a third eye is, whether yours works right..whatever..again it totally misses the point. Before you get to any whacked, crazy stuff there is some basic work to do anyway, and some argue the basic work is where it's at in the end. The whole act of trying to figure out what your experiences "mean" is kind of outside the purpose of Buddhist meditation, and this is why I'd say read some basic books on Mahayana or something if you can't find a teacher.

If you are ready to get into philosophy a bit, the book A Profound Mind by HHDL really was great for me, it also has some very basic meditation advice.

Again, not trying to be harsh..but if you are looking for "progression" or honest advice on meditation, the paranormal questions won't get it for you...they are more likely to just cause fun arguments between Dharmawheel members lol. Anyway, I am trying to steer you on the right path as much as I know how, i'm no expert either..I do know though that virtually every meditation authority I know of (Buddhist meditation at least) does not recommend focusing on the kinds of experiences you are having of and withing themselves, they are just part of meditation.

Can I suggest, if you are interested in just discussing the paranormal stuff, there is a forum for topics like that, and some people (myself included) would probably find those kinds of subjects interesting, the thing is that here you are trying to connect concern with what paranormal stuff "means" in terms of Buddhist meditation, whereas if you learned a bit of the philosophy (namely basic grasp of Anatta/Sunyata/etc.) you would see, the question of what they "mean" is patently meaningless! So basically..Andrew is right!

I do read about Buddhism, I have over 20 books on the subject and I also take out books from my local libraries. On another note, I don't have any more questions about the "paranormal" - I've run out (too bad huh?)! So I wouldn't look forward to anymore "fun arguments" instigated by one of my threads (at least not about the "paranormal"). Just because the majority of my posts/threads have been about the paranormal, doesn't mean I am attached. Does curiosity/interest mean attachment? Probably to a minimal degree. It seems all of you are judging a book (me) by it's cover (my threads/posts). Don't judge me by a few threads, I've been posting for a week so chill out - stop pooping on me. I've spent all my spare cash on books on Buddhism, I am slowly building my practice, and I will be specializing in Buddhist studies in university this fall. You make it sound like I'm in Buddhism to become a jedi. Personally I feel I've made leaps and bounds ever since starting to incorporate Buddhism into my life; I am definitely not who I was when I started and I plan on continuing to refine myself in accordance to the Dharma. I don't know what else to say, besides that I can assure you that you will see many quality posts submitted under me in the future!
So sit tight and hang loose ma brotha.



/Dylan

[Johnny Dangerous]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel attacked or anything, I am just putting my opinion out there the best I can, and of course that's all it is. if I made any snap judgements or came off too abrasively i'm sorry. As you suggest, I should likely just leave you alone for a bit, I wish you the best in your practice, and i'm glad to hear that your life has improved due to the Dharma!