Crossing Eyes

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.

Crossing Eyes

Postby TaTa » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:44 pm

I am noticing that im crossing my eyes to much while meditating, its getting kind of distracting. Any tips on this??. Im trying to solve this by resting in my visual consciousness after practicing shine but im kind of lazy in this aspect because its not my regular practice recommended by my lama of practicing lagtong watching the thoughts arise and go after shine so i only do it once in a while.

Any tips on how to solve this issue?
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby floating_abu » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:25 pm

Maybe relax a little bit..it's kind of a very soft gaze, resting more than looking per se

More tips will follow :)

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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:12 pm

I have this same problem, as well as sort of 'twitching' eyes when visualizing, with larger scale visualizations it makes my eyes cross.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby kirtu » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:I have this same problem, as well as sort of 'twitching' eyes when visualizing, with larger scale visualizations it makes my eyes cross.


Visualization is mental not physical. Imagining an image is causing your eyes to cross?

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:35 pm

kirtu wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:I have this same problem, as well as sort of 'twitching' eyes when visualizing, with larger scale visualizations it makes my eyes cross.


Visualization is mental not physical. Imagining an image is causing your eyes to cross?

Kirt


Yes, I am having issues with my eyes twitching, refocusing and crossing with any kind of attempt at prolonged 'visual' focus, whether with actual objects or visualized ones..doesn't make alot of sense to me either. The actual crossing has only happened for me with stuff like Chenrezig visualization, anything more 'minor' seems to just make them twitch and constantly refocus.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby kirtu » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:14 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:I have this same problem, as well as sort of 'twitching' eyes when visualizing, with larger scale visualizations it makes my eyes cross.


Visualization is mental not physical. Imagining an image is causing your eyes to cross?


Yes, I am having issues with my eyes twitching, refocusing and crossing with any kind of attempt at prolonged 'visual' focus, whether with actual objects or visualized ones..doesn't make alot of sense to me either. The actual crossing has only happened for me with stuff like Chenrezig visualization, anything more 'minor' seems to just make them twitch and constantly refocus.


And you're not trying to actually physically, with your eyes generate the visualization? Have you tried closing your eyes to see if that might help (not recommended usually but it's also workable).

Do your eyes reacting from the start or after some time?

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:40 am


And you're not trying to actually physically, with your eyes generate the visualization? Have you tried closing your eyes to see if that might help (not recommended usually but it's also workable).

Do your eyes reacting from the start or after some time?

Kirt


What's difference between imagining something visually and visualizing it, aren't those about the same thing? I don't close my eyes because I can't visualize well at all with eyes closed, rather I have a hard time controlling the visualization I should say, it develops a mind of it's own if have my eyes closed, and focus becomes very difficult.

It takes a little time to happen usually, for instance a shamatha mediation of visualizing a blue light at the heart as my object, in the beginning it's fine, but after a bit my eyes may start to try refocusing constantly, even though technically i'm not seeing anything, it's exactly the same if I try focusing on an actual object such as a rock.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby kirtu » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:18 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:What's difference between imagining something visually and visualizing it, aren't those about the same thing?


The language is getting in the way - the difference I was getting at is generating an imaginary image in your mind and actually creating the image visually. I have found some people who try to do that at first - actually generate a visual image that they see with their eyes. Some people can do that but I think what is happening is that they have transferred an imaginary image to actual visual consciousness. Because they use their eyes, they can get tired quickly or have some kind of eye issues (like crossed eyes).

Apparently you aren't doing this just your eyes begin to behave as if it were happening. These systems are really not 100% separate to begin with but I haven't encountered eye crossing problems if someone isn't trying to physically generate an image before.

It takes a little time to happen usually, for instance a shamatha mediation of visualizing a blue light at the heart as my object, in the beginning it's fine, but after a bit my eyes may start to try refocusing constantly, even though technically i'm not seeing anything, it's exactly the same if I try focusing on an actual object such as a rock.


WOW! I was going to suggest just meditate with lights rather than the whole image.

Maybe shorter meditation but with as much detail without strain as you can. So 2-5 minutes at a time and just focus on the sadhana and mantra without much visualization.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby kirtu » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:24 am

TaTa wrote:I am noticing that im crossing my eyes to much while meditating, its getting kind of distracting. Any tips on this??. Im trying to solve this by resting in my visual consciousness after practicing shine but im kind of lazy in this aspect because its not my regular practice recommended by my lama of practicing lagtong watching the thoughts arise and go after shine so i only do it once in a while.

Any tips on how to solve this issue?


Relax, take a break and close your eyes for a few moments.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Crossing Eyes

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:27 am

I'll try just taking breaks then, thanks Kirt.

I trust that this is something that will just go away with time.

Was just reflecting on it and I somewhat suspect that Yoga done with my wife years ago where you "look up" at your third eye might have created some habits..might take time to break the habit.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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