Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

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starter
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Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby starter » Wed May 18, 2011 4:34 pm

Hello Friends,
Would like to share with you my summary of the applications of dependent origination in our Dhamma practice. To my understanding, DO can be applied
at the level of:

1) Removing ignorance/delusion: via contemplation of DO, three characteristics, 4NT and AN1:
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind."
"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind."

2) Stopping volitional formations (craving) , stopping establishment of consciousness on name and form (stopping “I”/”mine”-making, or delusion, and craving), leading to “internal emptiness” [empty of proliferations/fabrications] -- by "not attending to any themes, he enters & remains in internal emptiness." [MN 122] .

SN 22.53 Upaya Sutta:
How does consciousness become unestablished? It's through the abandonment of delight, craving and attachment to name and form or the five aggregates:
“When that consciousness is unestablished, not coming to growth, nongenerative, it is liberated. By being liberated, it is steady; by being steady, it is content; by being content, he is not agitated. Being unagitated, he personally attains nibbaana.”

SN 12.64:
“… where there is no delight, no craving, then consciousness does not land there or grow. Where consciousness does not land or grow, name-&-form does not alight. Where name-&-form does not alight, there is no growth of fabrications. Where there is no growth of fabrications, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future.”

3) “Stopping/emptying” name & from / six sense sets via “external emptiness” [empty of “I/”mine” and what belong to “I/”mine” in the internal and external sense media, leading to emptiness awareness-release].
MN 43:
"There is the case where a monk — having gone into the wilderness, to the root of a tree, or into an empty dwelling — considers this: 'This is empty of self or of anything pertaining to self.'"

4) “Stopping” contact at six sense doors, leading to the cessation of feelings via:
a. Sense restraint: not grasping at the gross sign and fine details/features of six sense objects, which might arouse unskillful qualities such as greed or aversion.
b. Disjoining six sense objects from mind: by contemplating sense objects, the contact and “the senser” as anicca/dukkha/anatta.

5) Stopping unbeneficial sensual feelings (leading to the cessation of craving)
a. Via contemplation of feelings: contemplate the feelings, the feeler, and the felt as anicca/dukkha/anatta.
MN 148 Chachakka Sutta:
“… one discerns, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, & escape from that feeling [pleasant/painful/neutral] ..."
That a person — through abandoning passion-obsession [liking] with regard to a feeling of pleasure, through abolishing resistance-obsession [disliking] with regard to a feeling of pain, through uprooting ignorance-obsession [delusion and negligence] with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, through abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing — would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing is possible. ...”

b. Via contemplation of the 4NT:
When painful feelings (dukkha) arise, be mindfulness of the arising of sufferings, and contemplate the causes of the sufferings and the means to end the sufferings.

6) Stopping craving via contemplating: contemplate the cravings, the craver, and the craved for as anicca/dukkha/anatta.
"Where are all these cravings leading to? -- " They actually only lead to more suffering!”
All cravings lead to both mental and physical distress in this life and beyond -- they'll get us into samsara!

7) Stopping clinging/sustenance via contemplating: contemplate the clinging, the clinger, and the clung to as anicca/dukkha/anatta.
“All acquisitions are sources of dukkha”.
"sabbe dhamma anatta"
“Nothing is worth adhering to”.

Finally, after the above seven steps of practice, the karmic existence will be brought to end (hopefully within this very life :smile: )!

Your helpful input would be appreciated. Thanks and metta to all,

Starter
Last edited by starter on Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Alex123
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby Alex123 » Wed May 18, 2011 6:17 pm

Hello Starter,

Very interesting. Thank you. However it seems that it all boils down to 4NT and teaching such as "nothing is worth adhering to" (MN37). Ultimately if this is dealt with, all links of D.O. will stop in due time.


""But how does a monk know, how does a monk see, so that ignorance is abandoned and clear knowing arises?"
There is the case, monk, where a monk has heard, 'All things are unworthy of attachment.' Having heard that all things are unworthy of attachment, he directly knows every thing. Directly knowing every thing, he comprehends every thing. Comprehending every thing, he sees all themes[2] as something separate. [3]"
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

So that single teaching if fully practiced will stop entire D.O.


With best wishes,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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bodom
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby bodom » Wed May 18, 2011 9:50 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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bodom
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby bodom » Wed May 18, 2011 11:51 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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ground
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby ground » Thu May 19, 2011 1:25 am


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bodom
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby bodom » Thu May 19, 2011 7:23 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

starter
Posts: 875
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:56 pm

Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby starter » Thu May 19, 2011 10:28 pm

Hi Friends,

Your input is appreciated.

"Although the Buddha analyzed and explained the sequence of mind moments in minute detail, to me it's more like falling out of a tree. As we come crashing down there's no opportunity to estimate how many feet and inches we've fallen. What we do know is that we've hit the ground with a thud and it hurts!"

-- To me, it would/might be much better to avoid the "falling out of a tree" and "hitting the ground with a thud" [which I would classify as Step 5) Stopping unbeneficial sensual feelings including pain] by contemplating/comprehending the earlier steps:

1) Removing ignorance/delusion: via contemplation of DO, three characteristics, 4NT and AN1[defiled vs. pure mind].

2) Stopping volitional formations (craving), stopping the establishment of consciousness on name and form (stopping “I”/”mine”-making, or delusion/craving/clinging), leading to “internal emptiness” [empty of proliferations/fabrications] -- by "not attending to any themes, he enters & remains in internal emptiness." [MN 122] .

3) “Stopping/emptying” name & from / six sense sets via “external emptiness” [empty of “I/”mine” and what belong to “I/”mine” in the internal and external sense media, leading to emptiness awareness-release].

MN 43:
"There is the case where a monk — having gone into the wilderness, to the root of a tree, or into an empty dwelling — considers this: 'This is empty of self or of anything pertaining to self.'"

By the way, would such contemplations be counted as "merely intellectual approaches"?

4) “Stopping” contact at six sense doors, leading to the cessation of feelings via:
a. Sense restraint: not grasping at the gross sign and fine details/features of six sense objects.
b. Dis-joining six sense objects from mind: by contemplating both sense objects and “the senser” as anicca/dukkha/anatta.

These approaches might sound "intellectual", but they can be practiced in every conscious moment of our daily life BEFORE we "fall and hit the ground with pain", and BEFORE the hindrances/sufferings can even arise. Of course I'm only a beginner with less than one year experience, I hope Ajahn Chah and our friends here wouldn't mind my boldness. My only purpose is to help.

Thanks and metta to all,

Starter

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bodom
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby bodom » Thu May 19, 2011 11:16 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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retrofuturist
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 19, 2011 11:25 pm

Greetings Starter,

This may possibly be of assistance...

Visual: Non-time-delineated model of Dependent Origination
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21

I've been wanting to get around to review the wording etc. to make sure I'm still happy with it, but it will do for now.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

starter
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby starter » Fri May 20, 2011 11:25 pm

Hello Retro,

The model is very helpful. Have you gotten some model about the practical applications of DO in our daily practice as well?

Thanks and metta,

Starter

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daverupa
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby daverupa » Sat May 21, 2011 5:26 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat May 21, 2011 8:51 am

Greetings Dave,

Good thinking... I'll try remembering that for the next version.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Apply dependent origination to our Dhamma practice?

Postby rowyourboat » Sat May 21, 2011 11:32 am

Hi Retro,

For the next version, can I suggest also including 'sankiitena panca upadana skanda dukkha' - for me one of the most important steps/statements in the DO.

@Starter

You go far, but can go further.. :smile:

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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