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Dependent Origination - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Dependent Origination

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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robertk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby robertk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:09 am


Element

Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Element » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:19 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:34 am

Or alternatively translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu...

“The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right
here & now, that which arises later, and that which arises following that.”
— AN 6:63

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Will
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Will » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:36 am

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

rowyourboat
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:32 am

The buddha does talk about descent in to the womb an such like in the Mahanidana sutta when talking about the DO. But at the same time, there are suttas which say that the elements of the DO can be seen in the here and now (okkantasamyutta) by stream entrants. Now all stream entrants are not endowed with any special capabilities enabling them to see past lives. Therefore the conclusion is that some elements which correspond to past life elements can be seen happening now, in this life. For example sankhara (mental fabrications- intentions) giving rise to consciousness. In the past life model this is supposed to mean karmic intentions of a past life giving rise to the first spark of consciousness in the womb. However the closest approximation we can come to this is to see intentions in this life giving rise to consciousness at any of the sense bases. This can be done by vipassana aimed at seeing the process of perception.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Element

Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Element » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:41 am


meindzai
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby meindzai » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:55 pm


Fruitzilla
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Fruitzilla » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:15 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:00 pm

I can assure you that i am not a physcialist, i was merely talking about rupa and not the other aggregates.

:namaste:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Jason
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Jason » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:13 pm

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

(Buddhist-related blog)
(non-Buddhist related blog)

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mikenz66
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:35 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:46 pm

Isnt the "[in the womb] but something that has been added?

As for the bit that says acquisition of the aggregates, i see this as the new sense of "I" takes these up.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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mikenz66
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:05 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:16 pm

Well i dont discount either interpretation as i can see that it can be interpreted both ways and still be viable and conductive.

I havent set in stone my understanding of D.O. as i am in no doubt that i still have much unknowing and so i am not appreciating it fully.I started this thread so that both sides could be voiced so people reading it could look at it from both angles which i feel can only be beneficial in the end.

:namaste:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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gavesako
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby gavesako » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 pm

I can recommend this article by Bhikkhu Bodhi for your consideration:

A Critical Examination of Ñānavīra Thera’s “A Note on Paticcasamuppada”
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:44 pm

Thanky you gavesako

:namaste:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Element

Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Element » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:47 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:53 pm

I have only started to appreciate it from buddhadasa interpretation so cant make my mind up on it to quickly. At the moment both interpretations have convincing points and both seem logical. The main point for me is does kamma continue to have an effect past the physical death, once i settle that i think i can settle on how to take D.O.

I feel like developing an Sañjaya Belaṭṭhaputta attitude towards it :rolleye:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Element

Re: Dependent Origination

Postby Element » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:55 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Dependent Origination

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:05 pm



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