Dharma Wheel

• Six massive glaciers in West Antarctica are moving faster than they did 40 years ago, causing more ice to discharge into the ocean and global sea level to rise, according to new research.

Indrajala wrote:Recent findings:

• Six massive glaciers in West Antarctica are moving faster than they did 40 years ago, causing more ice to discharge into the ocean and global sea level to rise, according to new research.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 153747.htm

Eco-philosopher Joanna Macy (b 1929) is a scholar of Buddhism, general systems theory & deep ecology. A respected voice in movements for peace, justice, and ecology, she interweaves her scholarship with four decades of activism.

EB: James Lovelock asserts that America and China will continue to use fossil fuels and compete for the last resources till it is too late. Civilization and most of the great ecosystems will collapse. A human population of a few million might survive around the Arctic Circle.

JM: These are what the Buddha would call “views”. They are based on a lot of scientific evidence, so I take them very seriously. But what it comes down to is that we are here now. So the choice is how to live now. With the little time left, we could wake up more. We could allow this whole experience of the planet, which is intrinsically rewarding, to manifest through our heart-minds—so that the planet may see itself, so that life may see itself. And we can bless it in some way.

EB: From where do you derive the psychic resources to bear witness to all this, while keeping in touch with joy?

JM: There’s a lot of joy in it. I find myself very buoyed by the work I do. I call it the work that re-connects. It involves speaking the truth about what we are facing. I think it’s very hard for people to do that alone, so this work thrives and requires groups.

It needs to be done in groups so we can hear it from each other. Then you realize that it gives a lie to the isolation we have been conditioned to experience in recent centuries, and especially by this hyper-individualist consumer society. People can graduate from their sense of isolation, into a realization of their inter-existence with all.

Yes, it looks bleak. But you are still alive now. You are alive with all the others, in this present moment. And because the truth is speaking in the work, it unlocks the heart. And there’s such a feeling and experience of adventure. It’s like a trumpet call to a great adventure. In all great adventures there comes a time when the little band of heroes feels totally outnumbered and bleak, like Frodo in Lord of the Rings or Pilgrim in Pilgrim’s Progress. You learn to say “It looks bleak. Big deal, it looks bleak.”

Zhen Li wrote:Societal collapse would be marvellous.

Zhen Li wrote:I don't know why they tease people like that. If they really believe their own words, it's too late.

Zhen Li wrote:Well, I don't know if we can really know what they believe in their hearts, but just as reputable, and more reputable, resources were claiming it would be too late, around what would now be a decade ago.

Zhen Li wrote:1. Who does what to avoid what?

Zhen Li wrote:2. James Hansen.

Gwenn Dana wrote:Too late to avoid big time change in nature? That it probably is.

Gwenn Dana wrote:Too late to avoid bigger time change? Who knows ...

Gwenn Dana wrote:Will going on like this aggravate it? Likely.

Zhen Li wrote:Assuming that reducing fossil fuel usage will stop (?), or slow (?) climate change (which I don't grant), the question is whether having will power is enough to have any impact on the political momentum of China's current energy policy, let alone those of less polluting nations. Fundamentally this feels to me like groping in the dark. Suppose everyone paid the price of regressing in standard of living for decades, frantically planting trees and doing with either shortages of electricity or no electricity, and the climate cools—is that really worth more than adapting to the warmer world? I definitely believe that there is an irresponsible amount of scaremongering going on about the effects of a climate that is warmer by 1-3 degrees. The world isn't going to end, we can easily adjust to different shorelines and more northerly farming regions. Remember a few years ago when the mainstream media (which you believe is trustworthy) claimed that an increase in 3 degrees would kill all marine life? Some of these people are either seriously scaremongering as best they can, are crazy, or live on a different planet (haven't they ever studied marine palaeontology?).

Zhen Li wrote:Assuming that reducing fossil fuel usage will stop (?), or slow (?) climate change (which I don't grant),

Zhen Li wrote:the question is whether having will power is enough to have any impact on the political momentum of China's current energy policy, let alone those of less polluting nations. Fundamentally this feels to me like groping in the dark.

Zhen Li wrote:Suppose everyone paid the price of regressing in standard of living for decades, frantically planting trees and doing with either shortages of electricity or no electricity, and the climate cools—is that really worth more than adapting to the warmer world?

Zhen Li wrote:I definitely believe that there is an irresponsible amount of scaremongering going on about the effects of a climate that is warmer by 1-3 degrees. The world isn't going to end, we can easily adjust to different shorelines and more northerly farming regions. Remember a few years ago when the mainstream media (which you believe is trustworthy) claimed that an increase in 3 degrees would kill all marine life? Some of these people are either seriously scaremongering as best they can, are crazy, or live on a different planet (haven't they ever studied marine palaeontology?).

Zhen Li wrote:Prominent pro-APGH climate scientists say this stuff all the time, you can find it everywhere. Here's millionaire vested-interest-doc Hansen's simply for an instance, since you asked,
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... nsen-obama

Zhen Li wrote:We've been through this before, and everyone has an answer for everything. I just happen to think the answers against APGH make more sense than those for - I have no particular interest in this being the case, and haven't received any money for holding this opinion, I just scrutinise every argument I'm presented with and balance it against opposing arguments. At best (measured in terms of how pro-APGH I would be) I can at times be agnostic, but at most I tend to oppose.