Angulimalaya Sutra: The Bad Teachers

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Angulimalaya Sutra: The Bad Teachers

Postby sraddha » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:33 pm

Aṅgulimâla replied to the Bhagavat, "Who are the novices in the world ? Who are the fully ordained ? Who are the true ascetics in the world ? Who are the worthy recipients of alms in the world ?"

The Bhagavat remained silent with answering and so Aṅgulimâla then said to the Bhagavat, "Bhagavat, the two other refuges of expedience were established for those people in the world who do not take refuge in the single, ultimate refuge.

Those two are refuges for people in the world, so are those from novices to the fully ordained, who are not yet truly pure, ascetics ? How can those who do not know the single refuge engage in refuge ! If those who do not go to the Bhagavat for refuge are not refined in taking refuge from the start, how can they be ascetics ?

If they do not go for refuge and are not truly pure, how can they become worthy recipients of alms !

Those who do not know the difference between the ultimate refuge and the refuge of expedience are unskilled novices in the world."



I'm sure many of you who read the Nikayas, wondered why Buddha is always mentioned first in the recollections... I always wondered about it's significance -- or if it had any significance. The Buddha anusmriti (recollection of Buddha) is always mentioned FIRST over all other recollections, so the other recollections are lesser meditations! They can lead to Arahanthood, but faith in Buddha alone one gains Bodhisatvahood!!!!

In the Triple Gem refuge, Buddha is FIRST. There is no refuge without Buddha!
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Re: Angulimalaya Sutra: The Bad Teachers

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:07 am

Greetings,

sraddha wrote:In the Triple Gem refuge, Buddha is FIRST. There is no refuge without Buddha!


Yes, without the Buddha there would be no Buddhasasana.

The Dharma would "exist" without the Buddha but it would not be "known". There might be Sangha in the absence of the Buddha (in the form of pacceka-buddhas aka "silent Buddhas"), but again, it would not be "known".

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Angulimalaya Sutra: The Bad Teachers

Postby sraddha » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:04 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

sraddha wrote:In the Triple Gem refuge, Buddha is FIRST. There is no refuge without Buddha!


Yes, without the Buddha there would be no Buddhasasana.

The Dharma would "exist" without the Buddha but it would not be "known". There might be Sangha in the absence of the Buddha (in the form of pacceka-buddhas aka "silent Buddhas"), but again, it would not be "known".

Metta,
Retro. :)



Hi Retro,

Interestingly, I wonder if the Dharma is basically recreated by a samyaksambuddha, the Dharma or law is literally the body of Buddha (Nikaya).

Our mind is always thinking in terms of "pre-existing", that the Dharma is pre-existing, not something that comes together or recreated upon Buddhahood -- which is why the Dharma is rediscovered.
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Re: Angulimalaya Sutra: The Bad Teachers

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:22 pm

Hi Sraddha :)

As I understand it, one way to say it is that dharmakaya is always present. But when the dharma is lost to sentient beings then a nirmanakaya can realize it again (in a human form).

Kindly,
Ngawang
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Re: Angulimalaya Sutra: The Bad Teachers

Postby sraddha » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:03 am

Hi NDrolma,

Pre - exist -- I guess you can say the Dharmakaya is pre existing in that before existence (the sensory means of observing the world), their is cessation.

The perfect cessation is again revealed to mankind through various Dharmas that a Nirmanakaya finds through practice, one of them being the Noble Eightfold Path.
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