Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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I don't have my notes with me now but if I recall correctly, in Mahayana, the first three of the 4NT are considered as the provisional and the Fourth Noble Truth which has the Eightfold Path is the 'ultimate' right? I recall this thread viewtopic.php?f=39&t=407
plwk wrote:I don't have my notes with me now but if I recall correctly, in Mahayana, the first three of the 4NT are considered as the provisional and the Fourth Noble Truth which has the Eightfold Path is the 'ultimate' right? I recall this thread viewtopic.php?f=39&t=407
The "ultimate" is nibbana or nirvana or cessation in all of Buddhism. Nirvana is the Third Noble Truth. I am not familiar with any "provisional" teaching applied to any or all of the Noble Truths.
This is how the chapter begins; BTTS translation:
At that time, Manjushri Bodhisattva Mahasattva told all the Bodhisattvas: “All of you Disciples of the Buddha, in this Saha world, the Holy Truth of Suffering is perhaps called offenses, perhaps called oppression, perhaps called flux and change, perhaps called grabbing onto conditions, perhaps called conglomeration, perhaps called thorns, perhaps called relying on the root, perhaps called vain and deceptive, perhaps called carbuncles and sores, perhaps called the conducts of stupid people.
Disciples of the Buddha, in this Saha world, the Holy Truth of the Accumulation of Suffering is perhaps called being bound up, perhaps called decay and ruin, perhaps called the meaning of love and attachment, perhaps called false enlightenment and thoughts, perhaps called tending toward and entering, perhaps called decisive, perhaps called net, perhaps called idle speculation, perhaps called following along, perhaps called the root of inversion.
Disciples of the Buddha, in this Saha world, the Holy Truth of the Extinction of Suffering is perhaps called non-contention, perhaps called leaving filth, perhaps called still quiescence, perhaps called markless, perhaps called without demise, perhaps called without a self-nature, perhaps called freedom from impediments, perhaps called extinction, perhaps called true and actual substance, perhaps called abiding in the self-nature.
“Disciples of the Buddha, in this Saha world, the Holy Truth of the Way Leading to the Extinction of Suffering is perhaps called the One Vehicle, perhaps called inclining toward stillness, perhaps called instructing and guiding, perhaps called ultimately without difference, perhaps called level equality, perhaps called renouncing one’s burden, perhaps called without tendencies, perhaps called according with the sagely intent, perhaps called the conduct of immortals, perhaps called ten treasuries.
“Disciples of the Buddha, in this Saha world, the Four Holy Truths can be described in forty trillion names such as these, which, by according with living beings’ thoughts, can cause them all to be tamed and subdued.
Last edited by Nicholas Weeks on Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now Thomas Cleary's version:
THEN THE GREAT ENLIGHTENING BEING Manjushri said to the enlightening
beings, "Children of Buddhas, the holy truth of suffering, in this
world Endurance, is sometimes called wrongdoing, or oppression, or
change, or clinging to objects, or accumulation, or thorns stabbing, or
dependence on the senses, or deceit, or the place of cancer, or ignorant
"The holy truth of the (cause of) the accumulation of suffering, in
this world Endurance, may be called bondage, or disintegration, or
attachment to goods, or false consciousness, or pursuit and involvement,
or conviction, or the web, or fancified conceptualizing, or following, or
"The holy truth of the extinction of suffering, in this world Endurance,
may be called noncontention, or freedom from defilement, or tranquility
and dispassion, or signlessness, or deathlessness, or absence of
inherent nature, or absence of hindrance, or extinction, or essential
reality, or abiding in one's own essence.
"The holy truth of the path to the extinction of suffering, in this
world Endurance, may be called the one vehicle, or progress toward
serenity, or guidance, or ultimate freedom from discrimination, or
equanimity, or putting down the burden, or having no object of pursuit,
or following the intent of the saint, or the practice of sages, or ten
"In this world there are four quadrillion such names to express the
four holy truths in accord with the mentalities of sentient beings, to
cause them all to be harmonized and pacified.
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