Ornament of Reason

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Ornament of Reason

Postby Will » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:33 pm

This is a new translation, from Snow Lion, of Nagarjuna's Root of the Middle Way with an extensive (over 500pp) commentary by Mabja Jangchub Tsondru (d. 1185). The main translator is Thomas Doctor, part of the Dharmachakra Translation Committee. The root text stands alone, and later each verse or line is commented on.

I am only 100pp or so into it, so these first impressions may change. It is an excellent, very clear and helpful commentary. Mabja's detailed outline is included, but not displayed in the usual indented lines, with italics and oodles of 2.2.A.b.x stuff. The outline has little boxes with text connected by lines; sounds primitive, but much easier to use.

The only small quibbles I have are the translation of almost every term. This would be fine if there were a glossary or the index had the Sanskrit equivalent next to the translated word - but neither is in this book. When mentioning some old Indian schools - Enumerators is probably the Sankhya school and the Ritualists is Mimamsa, but "Far Throwers" ???

Another question that is not answered in the book is more biographical info on Mabja bodhisattva. Maybe there is little or none, but considering his detailed, precise, scholarly and wise comments (plus relying on Chandrakirti) leads me to guess Sakya roots for him.

Anyone else started reading it?
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Ornament of Reason

Postby Malcolm » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:43 pm

Will wrote:This is a new translation, from Snow Lion, of Nagarjuna's Root of the Middle Way with an extensive (over 500pp) commentary by Mabja Jangchub Tsondru (d. 1185). The main translator is Thomas Doctor, part of the Dharmachakra Translation Committee. The root text stands alone, and later each verse or line is commented on.

I am only 100pp or so into it, so these first impressions may change. It is an excellent, very clear and helpful commentary. Mabja's detailed outline is included, but not displayed in the usual indented lines, with italics and oodles of 2.2.A.b.x stuff. The outline has little boxes with text connected by lines; sounds primitive, but much easier to use.

The only small quibbles I have are the translation of almost every term. This would be fine if there were a glossary or the index had the Sanskrit equivalent next to the translated word - but neither is in this book. When mentioning some old Indian schools - Enumerators is probably the Sankhya school and the Ritualists is Mimamsa, but "Far Throwers" ???

Another question that is not answered in the book is more biographical info on Mabja bodhisattva. Maybe there is little or none, but considering his detailed, precise, scholarly and wise comments (plus relying on Chandrakirti) leads me to guess Sakya roots for him.

Anyone else started reading it?


Not really a Sakya pa. He was scholar at Sangphu, a contemporary of Sonam Tsemo, probably knew him well. Died 1185.

"Far throwers" means Carvaka/lokayati, i.e. materialists who deny rebirth and ripening of karma.

We know virtually nothing about him apart from the fact that he was in the immediate circles of Patsab, the main translator of Candrakiriti's material into Tibetan.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Malcolm
 
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Re: Ornament of Reason

Postby Will » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:49 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Will wrote:This is a new translation, from Snow Lion, of Nagarjuna's Root of the Middle Way with an extensive (over 500pp) commentary by Mabja Jangchub Tsondru (d. 1185). The main translator is Thomas Doctor, part of the Dharmachakra Translation Committee. The root text stands alone, and later each verse or line is commented on.

I am only 100pp or so into it, so these first impressions may change. It is an excellent, very clear and helpful commentary. Mabja's detailed outline is included, but not displayed in the usual indented lines, with italics and oodles of 2.2.A.b.x stuff. The outline has little boxes with text connected by lines; sounds primitive, but much easier to use.

The only small quibbles I have are the translation of almost every term. This would be fine if there were a glossary or the index had the Sanskrit equivalent next to the translated word - but neither is in this book. When mentioning some old Indian schools - Enumerators is probably the Sankhya school and the Ritualists is Mimamsa, but "Far Throwers" ???

Another question that is not answered in the book is more biographical info on Mabja bodhisattva. Maybe there is little or none, but considering his detailed, precise, scholarly and wise comments (plus relying on Chandrakirti) leads me to guess Sakya roots for him.

Anyone else started reading it?


Not really a Sakya pa. He was scholar at Sangphu, a contemporary of Sonam Tsemo, probably knew him well. Died 1185.

"Far throwers" means Carvaka/lokayati, i.e. materialists who deny rebirth and ripening of karma.

We know virtually nothing about him apart from the fact that he was in the immediate circles of Patsab, the main translator of Candrakiriti's material into Tibetan.


So maybe he was part of the original Kadam school? No Geluks for 200 years or so. Or maybe Sangphu was a non-attached or independent sort of monastery or center?
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Will
 
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Re: Ornament of Reason

Postby Malcolm » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:50 pm

Will wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Will wrote:This is a new translation, from Snow Lion, of Nagarjuna's Root of the Middle Way with an extensive (over 500pp) commentary by Mabja Jangchub Tsondru (d. 1185). The main translator is Thomas Doctor, part of the Dharmachakra Translation Committee. The root text stands alone, and later each verse or line is commented on.

I am only 100pp or so into it, so these first impressions may change. It is an excellent, very clear and helpful commentary. Mabja's detailed outline is included, but not displayed in the usual indented lines, with italics and oodles of 2.2.A.b.x stuff. The outline has little boxes with text connected by lines; sounds primitive, but much easier to use.

The only small quibbles I have are the translation of almost every term. This would be fine if there were a glossary or the index had the Sanskrit equivalent next to the translated word - but neither is in this book. When mentioning some old Indian schools - Enumerators is probably the Sankhya school and the Ritualists is Mimamsa, but "Far Throwers" ???

Another question that is not answered in the book is more biographical info on Mabja bodhisattva. Maybe there is little or none, but considering his detailed, precise, scholarly and wise comments (plus relying on Chandrakirti) leads me to guess Sakya roots for him.

Anyone else started reading it?


Not really a Sakya pa. He was scholar at Sangphu, a contemporary of Sonam Tsemo, probably knew him well. Died 1185.

"Far throwers" means Carvaka/lokayati, i.e. materialists who deny rebirth and ripening of karma.

We know virtually nothing about him apart from the fact that he was in the immediate circles of Patsab, the main translator of Candrakiriti's material into Tibetan.


So maybe he was part of the original Kadam school? No Geluks for 200 years or so. Or maybe Sangphu was a non-attached or independent sort of monastery or center?


Sangphu was an original Kadampa school that became politically allied with Sakya.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Malcolm
 
Posts: 12144
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Re: Ornament of Reason

Postby Will » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:56 pm

Yes; found this glossary entry: (gsang phu sne thong) Monastery in central Tibet built by Ngog Legpe Sherap, a disciple of Atisha. Built in the year 1073 and later renovated by another disciple of Atisha, Loden Sherap.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
User avatar
Will
 
Posts: 1922
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am


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