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Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:43 pm
by Aemilius
Repetition of the name of Lotus sutra falls in the category of six remembrances, especially the Dharma-remembrance, therefore it is a valid and effective form of practice. I tried repeating the names of the short Prajnaparamita sutras (that are in Edward Conze's book of that name), it has a surprisingly clarifying effect !
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:30 pm
by Astus
Perceive Universal Sound wrote:AT: In the Heart Sutra it says that the prajna paramita mantra (mantra of transcendental wisdom) is the great mantra. Would you explain this?
ZMSS: Yes. They call it "the transcendental mantra, the great bright mantra, the utmost mantra" and so forth. This means that if one simply tries this mantra, gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha, with one's whole energy, then it will be the greatest mantra. Actually, of course, any mantra which you try in this way will be "the greatest mantra" for you! That particular mantra is not special, not different from any other. But all sutras which refer to any kind of mantra will say that it is special.
AT: Which means it is special if one believes that it is.
ZMSS: Correct. A student once asked me, "if this is true then even the words 'Coca Cola' can be a mantra?" Yes, if you really believe that "Coca Cola" is the greatest mantra and practice it diligently, it will work for you.
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:33 am
by Aemilius
Astus wrote:Perceive Universal Sound wrote:AT: In the Heart Sutra it says that the prajna paramita mantra (mantra of transcendental wisdom) is the great mantra. Would you explain this?
ZMSS: Yes. They call it "the transcendental mantra, the great bright mantra, the utmost mantra" and so forth. This means that if one simply tries this mantra, gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha, with one's whole energy, then it will be the greatest mantra. Actually, of course, any mantra which you try in this way will be "the greatest mantra" for you! That particular mantra is not special, not different from any other. But all sutras which refer to any kind of mantra will say that it is special.
AT: Which means it is special if one believes that it is.
ZMSS: Correct. A student once asked me, "if this is true then even the words 'Coca Cola' can be a mantra?" Yes, if you really believe that "Coca Cola" is the greatest mantra and practice it diligently, it will work for you.
I don't think Coca Cola is a product of Enlightenment motive or an expression of a bodhisattva's state of samadhi, like Heart of prajnaparamita sutra is. What is it that you have faith in ??
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:20 pm
by Astus
Aemilius,
The above is Seung Sahn's view of mantras which I partially agree with, but you don't have to.
I say partially because while it is true that "power words" are made by imagination, imagination is governed by many factors. So there is a difference between repeating Coca-Cola, repeating a title of a sutra, and repeating a mantra that you received special teachings and empowerments for. The difference is in that you know Coca-Cola is nothing even related to Buddhism, while a secret mantra is very special so you have lot of faith in it. But, and this is what Seung Sahn says, if you can have the same faith in Coca-Cola it works the same way as the mantra.
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:28 am
by Aemilius
The situation is more complex than that. In this case you have the power of the person Seung Sahn, who has said the idea, so you have faith in Seung Sahn, whether you acknowledge it or not! People often seem to think that they have discovered the idea themselves and so they think they are free of the faith factor! Then there are other persons who have personal power, charisma, and authority, like the inventor of Coca Cola, and the persons used in advertising, like David Bowie, Tina Turner, etc... and unconsciously or consciously you may think, and even experience, that you get a merit transference from David Bowie, etc.. by buying the product they have let their names be connected with. Similarly you have many famous individuals, buddhist masters, and bodhisattvas whose name and person is connected with the PrajnaParamita sutras, and thus also their personal salvific power.
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:25 am
by Bodhi
In my opinion, I think it is more beneficial to recite something that associate with Buddhism, or mantra by a great bodhisattva or Buddha. By doing so we are evoking our own Buddha Nature. Reciting something like Coca Cola can be a distraction to cultivation because it associate with worldly attachments. And many short mantras' power come from its seed syllable. Just my opinion.
Peace in Chan
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:27 am
by Dexing
Whatever the sound, it has no meaning until someone or a group of people give it meaning. It is just vibration of the air. When your eardrum is vibrated your ear-consciousness translates that into sound.
You then have to associate that sound with some meaning, which is usually mutually agreed upon by a group.
It's all artificial. The Prajna Paramita Mantra is just as artificial as Coca Cola. It's all just sound, before (and after) meaning is applied.
The sound "I" in English means me. But the same sound in Chinese means "love". Which one is correct?
Maybe Coca Cola means something in Sanskrit?
When you accept or reject, push or pull, then it doesn't matter what you say, it will have no use for your practice. That is still attachment to words and speech.
When you can go beyond (pun intended) the Prajna Paramita Mantra and attain one-pointed Coca Cola Samadhi, you will put it all down and just help save others... after all.
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:44 am
by Bodhi
This is my opinion only.
I believe that we should really be careful with the "Dharma" we spread so that there would be less misunderstanding of Buddhism that ultimately contribute to its corruption.
Words and sound is nothing until we give it a meaning, but the problem is that it is almost dangerous to say a word coca cola can be the greatest mantra if a person believe it is. When there are mantras passed down and spoken by enlightened one, we should strictly stick with that, and I'm a liberal-sort of person, but this is just to prevent many problems that can rise from that.
Ultimately this is all still an attachment. And even holding onto the Dharma is an attachment, but yet we still do hold onto the Dharma, because without it, we won't have correct views, and therefore would be impossible to steer ourselves toward enlightenment. It is a raft that we use to get to the other side of the river, and after that we let go of it, or use it to help others get over as well.
My shallow opinion
Peace in Chan
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:39 am
by Dexing
Bodhi wrote:When there are mantras passed down and spoken by enlightened one, we should strictly stick with that, and I'm a liberal-sort of person, but this is just to prevent many problems that can rise from that.
Of course, I don't think anyone is actually suggesting we recite the Coca Cola Mantra in favor over the Prajnaparamita Mantra. It is just to make a point, though a very important one.
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:51 am
by Bodhi
Dexing wrote:Bodhi wrote:When there are mantras passed down and spoken by enlightened one, we should strictly stick with that, and I'm a liberal-sort of person, but this is just to prevent many problems that can rise from that.
Of course, I don't think anyone is actually suggesting we recite the Coca Cola Mantra in favor over the Prajnaparamita Mantra. It is just to make a point, though a very important one.
Yeah of course not. It is indeed a important point and from POV of a Chan Buddhist like me, even chanting coca cola with full focus and concentration can have it benefits as if meditation, but with an already existing knowledge of what coca cola is, I probably would be thinking of foods and hunger more
, instead of associating with enlightened one which help with evoking our own Buddha nature. Like Ven. master wei chueh said "reciting physical sutra evoke the already inherit sutra within us"
Peace in Chan
Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:43 am
by Aemilius
Dexing wrote:Whatever the sound, it has no meaning until someone or a group of people give it meaning. It is just vibration of the air. When your eardrum is vibrated your ear-consciousness translates that into sound.
You then have to associate that sound with some meaning, which is usually mutually agreed upon by a group.
It's all artificial. The Prajna Paramita Mantra is just as artificial as Coca Cola. It's all just sound, before (and after) meaning is applied.
The sound "I" in English means me. But the same sound in Chinese means "love". Which one is correct?
Maybe Coca Cola means something in Sanskrit?
When you accept or reject, push or pull, then it doesn't matter what you say, it will have no use for your practice. That is still attachment to words and speech.
When you can go beyond (pun intended) the Prajna Paramita Mantra and attain one-pointed Coca Cola Samadhi, you will put it all down and just help save others... after all.
Behind all verbal expression is a being or a person, this person has an
intention when he says something, he has a mental state that is exressed through words, words are communication, mantras are also communication,...