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 Post subject: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:15 am 
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Hi,

In the Heart Sutra originally translated by both Kumārajīva and XuanZang into Chinese, the last words are 菩提僧莎訶 (pu2ti2seng1sa1he1) instead of the 菩提薩婆訶 (pu2ti2sa4po1he1). The general explanation is that both 僧莎訶 and 薩婆訶 are both equal to svaahaa.

It just puzzle me a bit, could 菩提僧莎訶 be something like bodhi *sam* svaahaa?

(I am not good at Sanskrit, and not sure if that make any sense at all. This is just out of my curiosity. And, I know this is not really a significant part of the entire sutra)

regards.


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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:04 am 
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I think it is definitely possible, sam is bija-mantra of Samantabhadra in some mandala, I'm not sure which one it was, but it could also be something else?

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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:42 am 
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some1 wrote:
Hi,

In the Heart Sutra originally translated by both Kumārajīva and XuanZang into Chinese, the last words are 菩提僧莎訶 (pu2ti2seng1sa1he1) instead of the 菩提薩婆訶 (pu2ti2sa4po1he1). The general explanation is that both 僧莎訶 and 薩婆訶 are both equal to svaahaa.

It just puzzle me a bit, could 菩提僧莎訶 be something like bodhi *sam* svaahaa?

(I am not good at Sanskrit, and not sure if that make any sense at all. This is just out of my curiosity. And, I know this is not really a significant part of the entire sutra)

regards.


What source are you using for this reading?

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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:05 am 
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Huifeng wrote:
What source are you using for this reading?

Venerable,
I am referring to the CBETA at the below URLs

摩訶般若波羅蜜大明咒經 姚秦天竺三藏鳩摩羅什譯
http://www.cbeta.org/result/normal/T08/0250_001.htm

般若波羅蜜多心經 唐三藏法師玄奘譯
http://www.cbeta.org/result/normal/T08/0251_001.htm

I also found an article written by 若知法師 about that
http://www.chiefsun.org.tw/tw/0_discipl ... .php?ID=23


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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:41 am 
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some1 wrote:
Huifeng wrote:
What source are you using for this reading?

Venerable,
I am referring to the CBETA at the below URLs

摩訶般若波羅蜜大明咒經 姚秦天竺三藏鳩摩羅什譯
http://www.cbeta.org/result/normal/T08/0250_001.htm

般若波羅蜜多心經 唐三藏法師玄奘譯
http://www.cbeta.org/result/normal/T08/0251_001.htm

I also found an article written by 若知法師 about that
http://www.chiefsun.org.tw/tw/0_discipl ... .php?ID=23


If you go online, and just search for a bit, there are apparently many "Xuanzang" versions that use the other form of "sa-po-he". This is the only way I've ever seen it in liturgical texts, too.

When I get home, I'll check the written Taisho, and see if I can check the Qianlong Zang, too. Sometimes you can't rely on the digital texts too much. Typos can creep in, and then be multiplied manifold due to "copy and paste" syndrome.

My older version of a translation of Kumarajiva's has the "sa-po-he", too. But my newer one has the "seng-". Now, where did I get that old Kumarajiva from? Usually it's from CBETA Taisho ... but in maybe 2006 ... ??

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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:02 pm 
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This late 8th-early 9th century Japanese manuscript of Xuanzang's version may be of some interest.


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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:59 pm 
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Beautiful calligraphy. Very easy to read. I'm saving this file. :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:49 am 
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Checking the hard copy Taisho, the "seng-sa-he" reading is what the Taisho people had, but the "three versions", ie. the Song, Yuan and Ming, all had the "sa-po-he" reading. In practice, I've only ever encountered this latter version, and never the former. Taisho is a bit weird at times.

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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:44 am 
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Huifeng wrote:
Checking the hard copy Taisho, the "seng-sa-he" reading is what the Taisho people had, but the "three versions", ie. the Song, Yuan and Ming, all had the "sa-po-he" reading. In practice, I've only ever encountered this latter version, and never the former. Taisho is a bit weird at times.
Venerable, thanks a lot for confirming that the different is specific to the Taisho version. I have checked again and found that it was indeed mentioned in the CBETA E-News "《般若波羅蜜多心經》的 T08.251.848c的「菩提[07]僧莎訶」的「僧莎」二字,宋元明三本作「薩婆」二字". I will be more careful to cross-examine the text next time.


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 Post subject: Re: bodhi sam svaahaa?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:47 am 
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Huifeng wrote:
Taisho is a bit weird at times.


This was brought up in my class today.

The Taisho canon is full of errors and misreadings (and the punctuation at times is totally off), so sometimes the best thing to do is to look at manuscripts from the Dunhuang archive if available or other sources going back as early as possible.

Isn't it odd how 100 years ago scholars were using woodblock prints and then they dropped them in favour of a neat and tidy Taisho canon, and now we're dropping the Taisho and going back to the old manuscripts?

:rolling:

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