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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:36 am 
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Pema Rigdzin wrote:
DarwidHalim wrote:
Since Some of Vajrayana practices can seems illogical in the beginning, the component of faith is extremely important. This faith should come from the solid understanding of Mahayana, and or Pali tradition.

I have come across people start with Vajrayana and at the end, they condemn it. The problem is the foundation of Mahayana is not strong.

So if I can suggest, you should study Lamrim Or Lamdre as the backbone of your stability ad faith.


Though this won't be true for everyone, I think it is nonetheless very true for a great many people. Abidharma is also very important to get a grasp of.


Agree with both of these statements. I think that there is a lot of lip service paid to the necessity to gain proper foundations - I'm talking years of practice/inquiry - before entering a vajra path. But in reality, at least in the west, it is rarely practiced like that. Often with a justification: life is short/it's the kaliyuga/just jump in.....I think that attitude often produces bad consequences.

:anjali:


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 pm 
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tobes wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
DarwidHalim wrote:
Since Some of Vajrayana practices can seems illogical in the beginning, the component of faith is extremely important. This faith should come from the solid understanding of Mahayana, and or Pali tradition.

I have come across people start with Vajrayana and at the end, they condemn it. The problem is the foundation of Mahayana is not strong.

So if I can suggest, you should study Lamrim Or Lamdre as the backbone of your stability ad faith.


Though this won't be true for everyone, I think it is nonetheless very true for a great many people. Abidharma is also very important to get a grasp of.


Agree with both of these statements. I think that there is a lot of lip service paid to the necessity to gain proper foundations - I'm talking years of practice/inquiry - before entering a vajra path. But in reality, at least in the west, it is rarely practiced like that. Often with a justification: life is short/it's the kaliyuga/just jump in.....I think that attitude often produces bad consequences.

:anjali:
I also agree very:


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 133
Find a Guru who is accessible, is skillful, gives a good foundation in Sutra and Mahayana, continuously practices virtues, is fiercely compassionate, has a decent sense of humor, inspires faith, confidence and devotion...

I know they exist as I have found such a one...

nothing else is necessary in Vajrayana, except practice of course!


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Posts: 64
Thank you for your replies : ) !

The sangha (drikung kagyu) I'm practicing with says it is not necessary to undertake ngondro initially (which I assume is 'assigned' by the lama) since it can be off putting for many beginners. Therefore, it is okay to begin practice with certain "simpler" sadhanas without the empowerment, direct lama, or ngondro.

As it is already been stated, the Vajrayana tradition seems to place heavy emphasis on lineage and student/teacher relationship. In your experience what was it like finding a Lama? Are they seeking students themselves? Are they accessible?

In the meantime thanks for the replies and I will continue studying the foundations of Mahayana, classical Tibetan, and meditation and sadhana practices. Much love and deep bows to all forumers : )

Lotwell


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 133
lotwell wrote:
Thank you for your replies : ) !

The sangha (drikung kagyu) I'm practicing with says it is not necessary to undertake ngondro initially (which I assume is 'assigned' by the lama) since it can be off putting for many beginners. Therefore, it is okay to begin practice with certain "simpler" sadhanas without the empowerment, direct lama, or ngondro.

As it is already been stated, the Vajrayana tradition seems to place heavy emphasis on lineage and student/teacher relationship. In your experience what was it like finding a Lama? Are they seeking students themselves? Are they accessible?

In the meantime thanks for the replies and I will continue studying the foundations of Mahayana, classical Tibetan, and meditation and sadhana practices. Much love and deep bows to all forumers : )

Lotwell


My limited understanding is that Lamas do not seek students. There are hilarious examples of those that visit my Lama asking who their root guru is with him giving various replies for their understanding and support. They go to seek their root guru and some time later (from days to years) they recognize him as theirs! There is always room for a sincere, devoted practitioner so don't be shy about seeking out a Lama that you resonate with.

Whenever you decide that Vajrayana is for you and that you will commit to devoted practice, then, imho, seek out your Lama immediately if you haven't done so already. Then you would receive lineage and empowerments from the Lama and not the Sangha...


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:49 am
Posts: 543
1. Observe teacher.
2. Having checked everything is okay take further instructions from teacher.
3. Consider if this teacher is going to be your life long guru.
4. Follow every instruction.
5. Be a perfect student.

_________________
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning vajrayana
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:11 pm
Posts: 133
Caz wrote:
1. Observe teacher.
2. Having checked everything is okay take further instructions from teacher.
3. Consider if this teacher is going to be your life long guru.
4. Follow every instruction.
5. Be a perfect student.


Excellent!


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