Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby michaelb » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:13 am

rai wrote:usually i feel uncomfortable when people are dissrespcetful even to some anonymous user on the forum. is it something wrong with that?
Me too. Other than reading "Crazy Wisdom" several years ago, I have absolutely no connection to Chogyam Trungpa or Shambala. But I think Illusionsgame made a fair point. I think it is easy to just blurt out "meaningless" dismissive comments about others without thought.

In any case, these kind of exchanges remind me of why I have tended to avoid internet Dharma forums since e-sangha closed down.

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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby AdmiralJim » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:31 am

Talk about things being blown all out of proportion. It was a flippant comment meant as a joke about a guy who had real demons but who is revered as a saint, if that is spiritual materialism then call me a free market capitalist.
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Silent Bob » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:02 am

AdmiralJim wrote:Talk about things being blown all out of proportion. It was a flippant comment meant as a joke about a guy who had real demons but who is revered as a saint, if that is spiritual materialism then call me a free market capitalist.


I'm not a student of CTR and haven't even been in the same room with him in almost 30 years, nor am I a member of SI, but the tone of the comments in this thread are disrespectful toward a teacher who is admired by many and if you can't figure that out on your own, you and that dwarf need some serious remedial work.
Last edited by catmoon on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ad hom removed
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Pero » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:12 am

Silent Bob wrote:
AdmiralJim wrote:Talk about things being blown all out of proportion. It was a flippant comment meant as a joke about a guy who had real demons but who is revered as a saint, if that is spiritual materialism then call me a free market capitalist.


I'm not a student of CTR and haven't even been in the same room with him in almost 30 years, nor am I a member of SI, but the tone of the comments in this thread are disrespectful toward a teacher who is admired by many and if you can't figure that out on your own, you and that dwarf need some serious remedial work.

Ok so I'm afraid I have nothing to say on the topic and off-topic posts but just have to ask now, what's up with Nangwa and dwarves? I keep seeing it mentioned and have no idea what's it about. :shrug:
Last edited by catmoon on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Ad hom removed from quote
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Josef » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:24 am

Pero wrote:Ok so I'm afraid I have nothing to say on the topic and off-topic posts but just have to ask now, what's up with Nangwa and dwarves? I keep seeing it mentioned and have no idea what's it about. :shrug:

Haha, it's just because my profile picture is Tyrion Lannister.
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby kirtu » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:34 am

Nangwa wrote:
Pero wrote:Ok so I'm afraid I have nothing to say on the topic and off-topic posts but just have to ask now, what's up with Nangwa and dwarves? I keep seeing it mentioned and have no idea what's it about. :shrug:

Haha, it's just because my profile picture is Tyrion Lannister.


Ah! - and I was confusing it with Peter Drinklage ....

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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Kilaya. » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:28 am

Once a Kagyu Lama was asked by some zealous students about how they should react when the members of another Buddhist community criticize him, how they shoud defend their beloved Lama. The Lama said that it is the Lama that protects his students and not the other way. I read CT's works and I highly respect him, that's why I don't think he needs anyone's "help".
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby heart » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:45 am

Disliking Trungpa is the new black among western students of Tibetan Buddhism it seems like. You can then discard spiritual materialism, which must be a relief.


In this video Trungpa is holding a huge vajra in his hand a few minutes in. Looks like it have five prongs though.



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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Kilaya. » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:08 am

Duty calls

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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Karma K Sonam » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:16 am

Lol kilaya. Love the picture!
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:38 am

"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?"

"Certainly not, Lord."

"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'
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One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby kirtu » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:09 pm

heart wrote:In this video Trungpa is holding a huge vajra in his hand a few minutes in. Looks like it have five prongs though.


Thanks! Unquestionably a Vidyadhara.

@Lotus_B: The nine-pronged vajra is considered more wrathful although there are variations on it as well. Perhaps his display was connected with a transmission?

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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Silent Bob » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:19 am

kirtu wrote:
heart wrote:In this video Trungpa is holding a huge vajra in his hand a few minutes in. Looks like it have five prongs though.


Thanks! Unquestionably a Vidyadhara.

@Lotus_B: The nine-pronged vajra is considered more wrathful although there are variations on it as well. Perhaps his display was connected with a transmission?

Kirt


If memory serves me, the video was from the EVAM seminar in the early 80's and no particular transmission took place at the time, though as always, I could be wrong. Some of the anti-CTR zealots here might actually learn something by watching the video, though I suspect it might not penetrate their smug, personally-imposed limitations.
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:58 am

I do believe you are over reacting. Nobody here has doubted Chogyam Trungpas brilliance, but you would seriously have your head up your rectum if you did not acknowledge the man had a drinking problem. I mean his problem killed him for crying out loud!
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One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Silent Bob » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:43 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:I do believe you are over reacting. Nobody here has doubted Chogyam Trungpas brilliance, but you would seriously have your head up your rectum if you did not acknowledge the man had a drinking problem. I mean his problem killed him for crying out loud!
:namaste:


Greg, no argument whatever from me on that score, none. BTW, has anyone ever told you that you have a particularly gracious and eloquent style of self-expression? No?...what a surprise!!!
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby pemachophel » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:56 pm

The one time I spoke to Trungpa Rinpoche one-on-one (in His office at the old Karma Dzong in Boulder), it was 10 AM and He appeared totally looped -- looped enough so that He looked like He was coming in and out of consciousness. Nevertheless, after asking me a question and hearing my answer, He zapped my ego with two words and a sardonic "hmpf!" as accurately as any Lama has ever done before or since. And He wasn't even my Lama! So for me, His being drunk was not the same as my being drunk... not by a long shot. In my experience, even "drunk," He was displaying Buddha activity.
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Silent Bob wrote:BTW, has anyone ever told you that you have a particularly gracious and eloquent style of self-expression? No?...what a surprise!!!
They have actually, many times. You should hear me when I'm not being gracious and eloquent! Ever heard anybody use the word f*** at least four times in one sentence? A habit I picked up working with street kids, junkies and prostitutes. Here on Dharma Wheel I am at my most courteous! I won't even get into how I am when I lose my temper. I guess we all have issues to deal with. If we didn't we wouldn't be in samsara would we? ;)
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby catmoon » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:00 pm

What Greg says is true. I have had some pretty direct experience of his, uh, command of English. I have found over the last year or two that if you give him lots to eat and a little catnip now and then, he mellows out considerably. :tongue:


Seriously though, it's time to tidy things up. :focus:
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Greg » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:15 pm

illusionsgame wrote:Nangwa wrote:
(he never hid anything from us--nothing)


I've heard from a number of credible sources that his cocaine habit--particularly the extent of it--was kept quite hidden from students.

I don't say that to denigrate the man or the many things that he accomplished. I just think it makes sense to have an honest appraisal of his legacy without mean-spirited gibes on the one hand (like the one that opened this thread) or hagiography on the other.
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Re: Random question on Chogyam Trungpa

Postby Josef » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:49 am

Greg wrote:
I don't say that to denigrate the man or the many things that he accomplished. I just think it makes sense to have an honest appraisal of his legacy without mean-spirited gibes on the one hand (like the one that opened this thread) or hagiography on the other.

My jibe was not mean-spirited at all.

One of the problems with online communication I suppose.
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