100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

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100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby padma norbu » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:54 pm

something I don't get is it seems like a lot of audio versions of the 100-syllable mantra are missing the line SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L0iT5i2CmE

I have counted and read along 5x. It's not there or else it's swapped with ANURAKTO ME BHAVA. This is the 3rd or 4th version I've listened to. Why is this being skipped or swapped? I've not found a version with the two lines swapped or SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA missing.

OM VAJRASATTVA SAMAYA MANUPALAYA,
VAJRASATTVA DENOPA
TITHA, DIDO ME BHAVA,
SUTO KAYO ME BHAVA,
SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA, <-- missing line
ANURAKTO ME BHAVA, <-- or two lines are swapped (this and above)
SARVA SIDDHI ME PRAYATSA,
SARVA KARMA SU TSAME,
TSITTAM SHRIYAM KURU HUM,
HA HA HA HA HO,
BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA,
VAJRA MAME MUNTSA,
VAJRA BHAVA MAHA SAMAYA
SATTVA AH HUM PHET
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby gnegirl » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:07 pm

Sometimes the Vajras become Benzars on top of it :)
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby padma norbu » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Yes, but the lines are swapped. I've never seen it printed that way, but he is definitely saying ANURAKTO... and THEN SUPO KAYO... followed by SARVA SIDDHI... And he's not the first. I listened to several online just now trying to find a good one and I finally realized the problem was this. I thought they were slurring their speech so bad I couldn't figure it out, but the problem is that they're swapping these two lines.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby alpha » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:01 pm

the version i was taught goes like this
OM BENZA SATO SAMAYA
MANUPALAYA
BENZA SATO TENOPA
TRITA DRITO MEBAWA
SUTO KAYO MEBAWA
SUPO KAYO MEBAWA
ANURAKTO MEBAWA
SARWA SIDDHI MENTRA YATSA
SARWA KARMA SUTSA ME
TSITAM SHIRYAM GURU HUM
HA HA HA HA HO
BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA,
BENZA MAME MUNTSA,
BENZABHAWA MAHA SAMAYA
SATO AH.

In this verssion the lines in question are not swapped or missing
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby conebeckham » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:35 pm

There are a few different "100 Syllable Mantras" of "Vajrasattva"---sometimes the lines are swapped as you note....you'll find different versions in various texts. Some have different "endings," as well..."Hung Phet," etc....

These differing versions are usually particular to a given sadhana--for instance, Shangpa's "Nigu Luk Demchok Lha Nga" has a "different" one....particular to that sadhana.

Also, "Vajra" becomes Benzra because that is how that combination of "Tibetanized Sanskrit" letters "va.dzra" is pronounced, following Tibetan pronounciation rules....same with "pa.dma" which becomes "Pema," and so on....
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby deepbluehum » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:38 pm

Oṃ

Vajrasattva samaya manupālaya |
Vajrasattva tvenopatiṣṭha |
Dṛḍho me bhava |
Sutoṣyo me bhava |
Supoṣyo me bhava |
Anurakto me bhava |
Sarva siddhiṃ me prayaccha |
Sarvakarmasu ca me
citta śriyaḥ kuru hūṃ ) |
Hā hā hā hā hoḥ
Bhagavan
sarva Tathāgata Vajra mā me muñca |
Vajri bhava mahāsamaya sattva āḥ ||


This is accurate sanskrit
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby pemachophel » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:39 pm

Padma Norbu,

This is exactly the problem when you try to do a practice which you have not received from a living Teacher. Although there are different versions of the 100-syllable Vajrasattva mantra, you do the one you are given by your Teacher. Full stop. End of story. Because you have found several different versions, there's no way you are going to be able to develop the kind of faith necessary to make such a mantra work. You're always going to be wondering if this is the correct one or the one you should be doing. These methods require one-pointed faith. Further, when visualizing a tantric deity, the outer form is the deity but the wisdom mind which enlivens that form and makes it work is your Guru's wisdom mind. No Guru, no wisdom mind. No wisdom mind, no living practice. So hard to get much of a result.

Nevertheless, good luck and best wishes. :namaste:
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:47 pm

There are several versions of Vajrasattva's hundred syllable mantra from authentic kama and terma traditions and each is correct and functions perfectly. One reason for the variance is that there is a form of Vajrasattva in each Buddha family and the mantra in each reflects unique attributes of the respective family. Anyway, like was already said, one just recites the mantra one's received the transmission for.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Adamantine » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:58 pm

In my experience in the Nyingma lineages I am familiar with it is Suto kayo me bhawa and then supo kayo me bhawa-- but I noticed when with Sakyapas they swap the anarakto me bhawa with the supo kayo.. it is the same mantra just a slightly different order of two lines. .the meaning remains the same, so no worries. Either version works, but Pemachopel is correct, you should really get the oral transmission for the mantra and do that one.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:01 am

Adamantine wrote:In my experience in the Nyingma lineages I am familiar with it is Suto kayo me bhawa and then supo kayo me bhawa-- but I noticed when with Sakyapas they swap the anarakto me bhawa with the supo kayo.. it is the same mantra just a slightly different order of two lines. .the meaning remains the same, so no worries. Either version works, but Pemachopel is correct, you should really get the oral transmission for the mantra and do that one.


In Nyingma that does seem to generally be the case, but not always - in the Kunzang Nyima Vajrasattva there is a similar swapping of lines and one or two other slight differences in the mantra.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Jangchup Donden » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:08 am

I think it matters less how precise you pronounce it, and more what your mental state is while you do recite it.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby padma norbu » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:32 am

Fastest version I ever heard:

http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/De ... 66505.html

(track 4)

follows the sanskrit, I believe... was reading various things earlier, to the effect that sanskrit version was less corrupt and also that the common Tibetan version corrected various corruptions, which I think implied that the sanskrit version was "corrupt," as well. Oh well, who knows. I just wanted to learn the thing because I've always had difficulty in the past and that line swap was screwing me up.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:47 am

I have been told that there would be an advantage to chant it fast.
Nevertheless, the kagyu lama I received from told it in a certain way (for exemple with vajra and not benza), and when I have been chanting with a group of practitioners of the Longchen Nyingthig, I still did chant with "vajra", also they were chanting with "benza" ... it could have been disturbing and maybe it was not "correct" so, but I was "not able" to chant it with "benza" (if I try, I just forget the rest of the prayer when I pronounce benza)

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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:56 am

padma norbu wrote:OM VAJRASATTVA SAMAYA MANUPALAYA,
VAJRASATTVA DENOPA
TITHA, DIDO ME BHAVA,
SUTO KAYO ME BHAVA,
SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA, <-- missing line
ANURAKTO ME BHAVA, <-- or two lines are swapped (this and above)
SARVA SIDDHI ME PRAYATSA,
SARVA KARMA SU TSAME,
TSITTAM SHRIYAM KURU HUM,
HA HA HA HA HO,
BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA,
VAJRA MAME MUNTSA,
VAJRA BHAVA MAHA SAMAYA
SATTVA AH HUM PHET


That's preciselly how I have been told ... except the 2(3) last lines which are "VAJRI BHAVA MAHA, SAMAYA SATTVA, AH!"
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By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:59 am

Sönam wrote:
padma norbu wrote:OM VAJRASATTVA SAMAYA MANUPALAYA,
VAJRASATTVA DENOPA
TITHA, DIDO ME BHAVA,
SUTO KAYO ME BHAVA,
SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA, <-- missing line
ANURAKTO ME BHAVA, <-- or two lines are swapped (this and above)
SARVA SIDDHI ME PRAYATSA,
SARVA KARMA SU TSAME,
TSITTAM SHRIYAM KURU HUM,
HA HA HA HA HO,
BHAGAVAN SARVA TATHAGATA,
VAJRA MAME MUNTSA,
VAJRA BHAVA MAHA SAMAYA
SATTVA AH HUM PHET


That's preciselly how I have been told ... except the 2(3) last lines which are "VAJRI BHAVA MAHA, SAMAYA SATTVA, AH!"


I also noted than in Longchen Nyinting they mark a slightly stop on the "SHRIYAM" (line 9)
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Pero » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:31 pm

Sönam wrote:I have been told that there would be an advantage to chant it fast.
Nevertheless, the kagyu lama I received from told it in a certain way (for exemple with vajra and not benza), and when I have been chanting with a group of practitioners of the Longchen Nyingthig, I still did chant with "vajra", also they were chanting with "benza" ... it could have been disturbing and maybe it was not "correct" so, but I was "not able" to chant it with "benza" (if I try, I just forget the rest of the prayer when I pronounce benza)

Haha it is the same for me. So I either just recite my own version under breathing or read the other version from the paper if there is one. Although benza is not so much of a problem, supokayo etc. is.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Virgo » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:58 pm

Jangchup Donden wrote:I think it matters less how precise you pronounce it, and more what your mental state is while you do recite it.

Sanskrit is ideal. Just because Tibetans cannot pronounce all the syllables because some matching sounds are not in their native tongue, does not mean that we cannot, or should not. In fact Enlgish speakers should be able to pronounce all of the sounds.

Sakya Pandita, one of the greatest Buddhist Panditas ever, was very clear about the fact that the siddhis come faster with correct Sanskrit pronunciation of the mantras.

Because of that, I pronounce this mantra with Sanksrit pronunciation. If you can make the syllables but you don't you are doing everyone a disservice, because it's effects will be limited. Devotion is extremely important, but the sounds themselves set up a special Dependent Origination. The Buddhas don't tell you to mumble any old words-- they give you a very specific mantra, in Sanskrit, a very special and unique language. You will still get results doing a "close" version or a "Tibetanized" version, but the results won't be as powerful, or will take longer.


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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby deepbluehum » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:17 pm

Virgo wrote:
Jangchup Donden wrote:I think it matters less how precise you pronounce it, and more what your mental state is while you do recite it.

Sanskrit is ideal. Just because Tibetans cannot pronounce all the syllables because some matching sounds are not in their native tongue, does not mean that we cannot, or should not. In fact Enlgish speakers should be able to pronounce all of the sounds.

Sakya Pandita, one of the greatest Buddhist Panditas ever, was very clear about the fact that the siddhis come faster with correct Sanskrit pronunciation of the mantras.

Because of that, I pronounce this mantra with Sanksrit pronunciation. If you can make the syllables but you don't you are doing everyone a disservice, because it's effects will be limited. Devotion is extremely important, but the sounds themselves set up a special Dependent Origination. The Buddhas don't tell you to mumble any old words-- they give you a very specific mantra, in Sanskrit, a very special and unique language. You will still get results doing a "close" version or a "Tibetanized" version, but the results won't be as powerful, or will take longer.


Kevin


I don't know if results will be limited, but I agree that one should pronounce the mantras with correct Sanskrit. There is a significant difference between SHYO and KAYO, and SATTVA and SATO. When I looked up the translation and saw the difference between transliterations of the one my Tibetan teacher gave me and corrected Sanskrit transliteration, I couldn't get it out of my head that I was pronouncing it wrong and losing the meaning. So I corrected it for myself and I felt better. You will also see in termas that common mantras are Tibetized like SATO. Apparently the dakinis cannot spell Sanskrit. Ha ha. Just joking I know they come in a secret dakini script and the terton transliterates into Tibetan. But I always thought how come Guru Rinpoche can't spell?
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby Pero » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Virgo wrote:Sakya Pandita, one of the greatest Buddhist Panditas ever, was very clear about the fact that the siddhis come faster with correct Sanskrit pronunciation of the mantras.

Because of that, I pronounce this mantra with Sanksrit pronunciation. If you can make the syllables but you don't you are doing everyone a disservice, because it's effects will be limited. Devotion is extremely important, but the sounds themselves set up a special Dependent Origination. The Buddhas don't tell you to mumble any old words-- they give you a very specific mantra, in Sanskrit, a very special and unique language. You will still get results doing a "close" version or a "Tibetanized" version, but the results won't be as powerful, or will take longer.

But if you haven't received the mantra in Sanskrit, there is no point in reciting it in Sanskrit.

deepbluehum wrote:Apparently the dakinis cannot spell Sanskrit. Ha ha. Just joking I know they come in a secret dakini script and the terton transliterates into Tibetan. But I always thought how come Guru Rinpoche can't spell?

This is assuming that Dakinis speak and write in Sanskrit.
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Re: 100 Syllable Mantra SUPO KAYO ME BHAVA

Postby dakini_boi » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:47 pm

If the Tibetanized spelling appears in a terma, wouldn't it make sense to follow the pronunciation in the terma? Even in earth termas, presumably written just how Guru Rinpoche wanted them, the spellings are often Tibetanized, from what I've seen. This is an interesting issue, and I wonder how far we are to take Sakya Pandita's advice. . . for example, the seed syllable for Vajrayogini was originally Vam, but Tibetanized it became Bam, even the spelling - should we say Vam every time it comes up in a mantra?
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