YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

The One True Dhamma? - Dhamma Wheel

The One True Dhamma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

The One True Dhamma?

Postby Dan74 » Thu May 20, 2010 12:05 pm

Mike's and retro's exchange got me thinking about this "one true Dhamma" thingie.

While it is hubris to assume that my understanding is closer to the original, core, real purpose etc than a whole bunch of other people's, we all do it to a greater or lesser extent, I think. And it's fair enough to point it out too.

But if this hubris leads one to delve deeper into practice, to strengthen and deepen the faith in the Dhamma, the price is worth it. It's only when it becomes another thing in ego's arsenal, another thing to hoard and hold on to, and feel important for rediscovering the "one true Dhamma," then it's a problem. Then we are just carrying the goddamn raft around, ever improving, oiling sealing, extending, showing it off and feeling ever-so-proud, while the others, possibly leaky and less perfect ones, have long set sail.

Anyway just some musings. Best ignored as usual!

What was the question? Ah, is there such a thing as the one true Dhamma?
_/|\_

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 20, 2010 12:13 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu May 20, 2010 1:30 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:17 pm


User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby cooran » Fri May 21, 2010 9:58 pm

Hello all,

Preservation of the True Dhamma and what it actually is has always been of concern to devotees:


selected and translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... asoka.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 21, 2010 10:09 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri May 21, 2010 11:22 pm


User avatar
adosa
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby adosa » Sat May 22, 2010 12:24 am

Of course there is one true Dhamma and that is reality, the truth. Now the crux of the matter is to find that truth some 2500 years after the Buddha passed away. Our only option is to use what he taught as a guide, remain humble in what we think we know, and strive to see it for ourselves.

Sometimes I think we all fall victim to the same thought processes as in the Blind men and the Elephant simile.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#parable

IMHO,


adosa :smile:
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat May 22, 2010 12:34 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby bodom » Sat May 22, 2010 12:58 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat May 22, 2010 1:19 am


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat May 22, 2010 1:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Pannapetar
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 am
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Contact:

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby Pannapetar » Sat May 22, 2010 2:34 am


User avatar
sukhamanveti
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:33 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby sukhamanveti » Sat May 22, 2010 2:39 am

Is there a true Dhamma?

To my mind the answer is both yes and no.

Yes. I think that the Buddha distinguished between Dhamma and adhamma. Some things do lead to Nibbana and others lead only to more samsara. The Dhamma seems to include such ancient formulations as the Three Marks, The Eightfold Path, The Four Noble Truths (or Realities), the Brahmaviharas, and the like, and especially the realization of these teachings. Adhamma explicitly includes such things as the Atman, self-glorification, greed, attachment, doctrines of permanence, a Creator, and everything that leads away from the Path to Nibbana.

At the same time, I think that one of the points of AN VIII, 53 (=8.169) is that a great many things may be compatible with the teachings and may support one’s journey to enlightenment. The Path is actually quite broad in that the Buddha seems to say that it includes anything (consistent with the basic teachings I imagine) that gives rise to or enhances your nonattachment, renunciation, simplicity, contentment, etc.

Therefore, if you have a relatively firm foundation in the teachings and practices that come from the Buddha, as well as those which legitimately developed out of these early on, then I think that you may recognize Dhamma in many, different places, not just one. (Your clarity may protect you from mixing Dhamma with adhamma in some of the more unusual Dhamma-recognizing contexts.) One example of learning from another place: I learned from one teacher that problems and adversity are always an opportunity to practice, to develop compassion, nonattachment, insight, and forbearance, and to become aware of how my mind creates its own suffering, partly through the way in which it interprets and embellishes upon experience. I learned from him that with this attitude we may train ourselves to see difficult circumstances as a great help, rather than a hindrance, and incorporate them into the Path. I learned from him that every moment is a teacher and a time to practice, if we remain aware. (This brief summary does not do his teaching justice.) Now this teacher is not a teacher of Theravada, although he certainly embraces Dhamma and rejects adhamma, as defined above. Should I reject this true, helpful Dhammic advice, because I happened to find it in a non-Theravada package? I don’t think so. True wisdom is still wisdom wherever you may find it. I think I’d be crazy not to learn from someone who has cultivated wholesome states to a degree far beyond my own. And I don’t think that confusion or the intermixing of incompatible elements need be the result, at least not for me. I have always desired to understand as many points of view as I can. That is who I am. I still practice Theravada.

I think that Dhamma is one body of truth and many in its forms of expression and practice.

I am a bit sleepy. I hope this didn't come out too garbled. :smile:
Sīlaṃ balaṃ appaṭimaṃ.
Sīlaṃ āvudhamuttamaṃ.
Sīlamābharaṇaṃ seṭṭhaṃ.
Sīlaṃ kavacamabbhutaṃ.


Virtue is a matchless power.
Virtue is the greatest weapon.
Virtue is the best adornment.
Virtue is a wonderful armor.

Theragatha 614


Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
kusalassa upasampadā,
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.


Refraining from all wrong-doing,
Undertaking the good,
Purifying the mind,
This is the teaching of the buddhas.

Dhammapada v. 183/14.5

alan
Posts: 2812
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby alan » Sat May 22, 2010 4:37 am

Dhamma refers to the transcendent, unutterable reality? I didn't know that.
But most of the algo-rythmns I've been studying are primarily endomorphic, so I could be wrong.

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby PeterB » Sat May 22, 2010 8:53 am

A question which is slightly more interesting to me personally is ..why is there a need to have an emotional investment in there NOT being one true Dhamma ?

User avatar
fig tree
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:25 am

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby fig tree » Sun May 23, 2010 6:46 am


PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby PeterB » Sun May 23, 2010 7:40 am

Thats the whole point it seems to me. There is an assumption that to hold the view that there is is one true Dhamma is in and of itself negative.
I think that begs many questions. I think its actually a positive statement.
As I said what interests me is what that response puts aside..i.e. the need to think that there is not one true Dhamma.
I dont think it needs an over literal mind to see that the Buddha himself said that there was.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 23, 2010 9:40 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The One True Dhamma?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 23, 2010 9:43 am



Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 13 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine