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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Someone said on another forum (not here) that Tibetan Buddhism is the worse kind of Buddhism....my blood is boiling !!!!!!
I don't even know what to say to people that think like that....what would you say to someone that said that ?
I think it's better to say nothing....they wouldn't understand anyways....or appreciate.... :crying:

What does "worse" mean? "Worse" isn't an argument, just a feeling. Why shouldn't he dislike something you like? Surely you must dislike something or other that he happens to like a lot. Have compassion. If he's confusing feelings for an argument, gently point this out to him. Ultimately, all likes and dislikes have been washed away.

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
He's one of those intellectual types that uses logic to understand reality...has no room for the esoteric.

I see no logic in the fragments you posted, but surely you can see how someone might arrive at the conclusion that TB is not perfect?

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
"I strongly dislike the entire Lama paradigm. I also think Tibetan Buddhusm is the worst form of Buddhism in existence. The Dalai Lama is merely the head of a bad system, much like the Pope is for Xianity. "

Heh, half learning. Does he know the Dalai Lama's not even head of the Gelug tradition?

Dislike is not a problem. Whether or not this is all he has to say on the matter, I hope he takes a good, hard look at his dislike one day.

PS. Also, look at it this way: He dislikes TB. You dislike his dislike of TB. Hatred begets hatred and the cycle never ends. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:07 pm 
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I don't hate him at all...I rather like the fella :)
My heart just aches whenever someone puts down all that I love.

I chock it up to ignorance.


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:18 pm 
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I didn't say you hate him, just his hatred of TB. I'm not "against" either of these hatreds, I only pray that all thoughts would liberate themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:26 pm 
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devilyoudont wrote:
I didn't say you hate him, just his hatred of TB. I'm not "against" either of these hatreds, I only pray that all thoughts would liberate themselves.


Yes...sorry....

How do thoughts liberate themselves ?


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:35 pm 
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:hug:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:56 pm 
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:toilet:

:heart:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:12 pm 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:13 am 
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Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
ronnewmexico wrote:
perhaps it is...

what it is worse at is what I would first have to know to say yes or no.

Please explain what this person claims it to be worse at or about.



He dosn't say much specifically...other than making comments about the need for a GURU. And he dislikes the Dalai Lama. He's one of those
intellectual types that uses logic to understand reality...has no room for the esoteric. Other than that...I never asked him what he dislikes about Tibetan Buddhism specifically.


If he doesn't like the idea of having a guru, and has no appreciation of causation beyond what he can perceive - then I'd say he's absolutely correct, Tibetan Buddhism is the worst kind of Buddhism - for him. So no need to argue, I'd just agree with him. 8-)

You could simply suggest he may not know what's best or worst for everyone, although TB may be the worst form of Buddhism for him. After all, there are others who claim that it has helped to decrease their suffering.

You could also tell him how you feel when he puts something down that you love so much. Many nihilist-materialist intellectuals still value kindness, so he might respond to that.


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:45 am 
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Agree with Dakini_boi and others.
Living in minds' opinions, what freedom is that?
Caught by limitations of thoughts what peace is that?
Intelligence as clarifying tool or samsaras' adult weapon.
Dividing ideas can be mistaken for understanding.
In wisdom, our nature is the boss of thoughts, no ego is helpless lead by them.
How an ant sees his world...only rambling.

Dear Kunga, you say words has power, you are right. But walking in a city where people talk a language we don't understand, they maybe can tell : "look at that what a foolish one". I just smile very happely, not understanding anything.
no power on themselves, only in dependence with mind. They can be free birds or stones. Free flowing soft water or hard ice.

Arrogant talk is wind blowing from lower hole only. :smile:

Rejoicing for all what our fellows know and learn from all, masters explain.

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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:30 am 
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alpha wrote:
i get the usual :
"How have i benefited from someone getting enlightened ?"or "Have i been saved?No ,i havent i am still suffering.I think you are all deluded in thinking that you can save anybody.People are still suffering.Nobody has been saved yet"


At least by cherishing others more than oneself, the coconut of the imaginated one and its belongings breaks. Only ego has doors which close, wisdom or nature has no doors.

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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:26 am 
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:good:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:31 pm 
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HIM:



Tibet has a somewhat unique history in the overall tradition of Buddhism. It's not an especially positive one. I'm not aware of anything like Bon as an influence in any other Buddhist tradition. Loads of silly, superstitious nonsense. Mostly I find the Dalai Lama a huge irrelevance. It's just a shame that he's become such a powerful symbol for Buddhism in general in the eyes of the West. Things could have been better.



MY REPLY:

Bon is the native religion of Tibet . Buddhsim was imported from India . All countrys incorporate their native beliefes into whatever religion dominates, it helps to
assimulate the people into the transition. There is superstition in every religion, and in every Buddhist culture/country. Tibet was isolated from the world by it's geographical location...thats how it developed it's unique colorful style.

Tibet was invaded by China in the early '50's. It forced the people to spread out all over the world . Americans and other nationalities that are sympathetic to the cause of Tibet have embraced Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama out of compassion....causing Tibetan Buddhism to become popular in the West through political and spiritual motivation and sympathys.

There are many people (including myself), that have been enriched and inspired by Buddhism....it really doesn't matter what kind of Buddhist you are but what kind of heart you have.




What do you think ?


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Someone said on another forum (not here) that Tibetan Buddhism is the worse kind of Buddhism....my blood is boiling !!!!!!

Tibetan Buddhism might be the "worst" in the sense that it is one of the types of Buddhism which is the most difficult to understand correctly (there are still many things about it which I don't yet understand correctly).

I think that both Zen Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism are the sects of Buddhism which are the easiest to misinterpret. A lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that Zen is only about sitting stoicly in a room with Japanese ink-brush paintings on the walls while concentrating on nonsensical statements. And other people fall into the trap of thinking that Tibetan Buddhism is morally degenerate because they misinterpret the wrathful imagery in Tibetan artwork and sadhanas.

So yes, there's a great danger of misunderstanding Tibetan Buddhism. It is one of the worst styles of Buddhism for people who are lazy and closed-minded and who don't want to think.


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Luke wrote:
So yes, there's a great danger of misunderstanding Tibetan Buddhism. It is one of the worst styles of Buddhism for people who are lazy and closed-minded and who don't want to think.


Oooh...I like that ! But this would be very offensive to say to someone that considers himself an intellectual & philosopher. I don't wanna offend anyones intelligence....I wanna open their hearts.

:anjali:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
HIM:



Tibet has a somewhat unique history in the overall tradition of Buddhism. It's not an especially positive one. I'm not aware of anything like Bon as an influence in any other Buddhist tradition. Loads of silly, superstitious nonsense. Mostly I find the Dalai Lama a huge irrelevance. It's just a shame that he's become such a powerful symbol for Buddhism in general in the eyes of the West. Things could have been better.



MY REPLY:

Bon is the native religion of Tibet . Buddhsim was imported from India . All countrys incorporate their native beliefes into whatever religion dominates, it helps to
assimulate the people into the transition. There is superstition in every religion, and in every Buddhist culture/country. Tibet was isolated from the world by it's geographical location...thats how it developed it's unique colorful style.

Tibet was invaded by China in the early '50's. It forced the people to spread out all over the world . Americans and other nationalities that are sympathetic to the cause of Tibet have embraced Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama out of compassion....causing Tibetan Buddhism to become popular in the West through political and spiritual motivation and sympathys.

There are many people (including myself), that have been enriched and inspired by Buddhism....it really doesn't matter what kind of Buddhist you are but what kind of heart you have.




What do you think ?


Yes, I agree. It's curious to me that your friend would have such negative feelings towards the Dalai Lama. Mostly, when addressing popular culture, HHDL speaks about kindness - not about esoteric tantra and sorcery.

If I were in your position, I would shift the conversation a bit. Ask your friend - how does it feel to hold such harsh judgement about others? Especially about groups and individuals that teach and practice kindness and nonviolence, regardless of how their beliefs may differ from yours? If your friend lacks the courage and openmindedness to investigate a question like this - I'd personally seriously question my own interest in conversing with him. You know, one of the vows is "not to associate with heretics." If someone is willing to explore and debate, lots can be learned by both parties. But if he's strongly invested in maintaining a rigid, negative judgement - then pursuing that kind of company can actually undermine your own dharma practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:16 pm 
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dakini_boi wrote:
Ask your friend - how does it feel to hold such harsh judgement about others? Especially about groups and individuals that teach and practice kindness and nonviolence,


Yes...that is a good point. I think he considers himself a Buddhist too, (He has a Buddha image for one of his avatars at another forum).


dakini_boi wrote:
one of the vows is "not to associate with heretics." If someone is willing to explore and debate, lots can be learned by both parties. But if he's strongly invested in maintaining a rigid, negative judgement - then pursuing that kind of company can actually undermine your own dharma practice.


Yes...it is very difficult to associate with others that oppose and ridicule what you respect and have faith in. By associating with these types of people on other forums I have forgotton my own faith and religion...and have fallen into the pit along with them. For many years since the fall of Esangha...I have wandered into other non-Buddhist forums and made a fool of myself. I take refuge here now....I would like to wean myself away from other forums....it has been very detrimental to my well-being. _/\_


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Kunga Lhadzom,

I rejoice in your awareness of what is helpful and harmful to your practice! And your courage to act accordingly! May all beings immediately develop such clarity and courage. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:39 pm 
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Thank you dear dakini_boi _/\_

I feel like a gypsy wandering around without a home.....such a misfit. My teacher has moved far away...and I feel I have wandered away....funny how whatever your teacher does/you do. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:44 pm 
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muni wrote:
Arrogant talk is wind blowing from lower hole only.


lol....I'd like to use that one for my signature ! :applause:


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 Post subject: Re: Tibetan Buddhism...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Btw...here's my forum : http://theromantics.yuku.com/directory


It is called the "Romantics" because a few months a go it was geared only to the arts and poetry. Then I was having some personal issues and I closed it down & deleted everything. I recently started it back up...but no one is interested :crying:

I kept the name "The Romantics" because I still consider myself a romantic as far as loving art & poetry goes (not in the usual sense of romantic love).


:bow:


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