Tibetan Buddhism...

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Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 4:13 am

Someone said on another forum (not here) that Tibetan Buddhism is the worse kind of Buddhism....my blood is boiling !!!!!!
I don't even know what to say to people that think like that....what would you say to someone that said that ?
I think it's better to say nothing....they wouldn't understand anyways....or appreciate.... :crying:
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Dechen Norbu » Sat May 28, 2011 4:30 am

Say nothing. It's an opinion. He is entitled to it, even if it hurts you. It shouldn't hurt you, you know? :lol:
You will get into a discussion you may have a hard time winning if you don't have the proper arguments known back and forward.
Really, don't worry. Saying it's the worse kind of Buddhism is prone to all sorts of interpretations. For him, definitively it is.
For you, it isn't. :smile:
Just be happy that in your case you find that to be untrue, since you like it.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat May 28, 2011 5:04 am

perhaps it is...

what it is worse at is what I would first have to know to say yes or no.

Please explain what this person claims it to be worse at or about.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 5:12 am

Yes...thank you for the reply Dechen. The person that said that is very intelligent...but obviously is not drawn to the Vajrayana. I'm not afraid to defend Tibetan Buddhism....but yeah...I'm not a scholar or good at debate (and he is). But there is no way you can get through to people that have their mind closed and are biased to begin with. I think he would enjoy the likes of Nagarjuna though.

I'd like to see Namdrol kick his butt....lol


:namaste:
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 5:23 am

ronnewmexico wrote:perhaps it is...

what it is worse at is what I would first have to know to say yes or no.

Please explain what this person claims it to be worse at or about.



He dosn't say much specifically...other than making comments about the need for a GURU. And he dislikes the Dalai Lama. He's one of those
intellectual types that uses logic to understand reality...has no room for the esoteric. Other than that...I never asked him what he dislikes about Tibetan Buddhism specifically.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat May 28, 2011 6:01 am

The peoples I find on places such as these that have dislike of HHDL to my experience they usually have a political or political agenda problem.
This I think is to be expected. Differing political leaning different theories of government economic, these can all lead to dislike.
That is my personal experience and a normal thing, not to much to get excited about.

HHDL in fact speaks highly of the logic and use of such in Tibetan Buddhism. I could with a little bit of work provide such quotes from his written materials. So I would expect that would not be a sole basis for dislike.

However the crux of the issue remains....we do not really know why this person says that.
Till that is found out it is not a solveable problem.

If he says Tibetan Buddhism is not a proper vehicle for enlightenment, something of that sort, that is a world of difference than simply stateing he doesn't like HHDL. A political or spiritual basis must be identified. AFter that a furthur identification of the specific must also be identified, the aspect of this that he considers wrong or improper.
Debate or discussions basis is not to kick butt or some such thing but really to effectively communicate ideas. Its basis is exchange. Successfully done one may claim furthuring point or substantiating point successfully, or not. Really the process of discussion or debate itself may be quite instructional regardless of perceived outcome. Outcome in this type of forum is really not so important as few read entire threads and many don't read even entire posts.
So any victory or loss in such a climate is hallow with not much merit to my opinion.

So I personally would ask this person. If it is only a political basis or a personal issue(past occurance) nothing may be done.
If spiritual....I agree it may be only a educated response that may be appropriate, depending on context.
But at this point it seems not much is definitively known.

For a person to make such claims ususally indicates they are not rational or logical in the specific. So their claims upon inspection are usually easily found to be not those popular to be held by others. So a basic defense is quite often best served in one manner....having them explain what they mean in depth.
Their words will stand for themselves, and all may see them for what they are, founded or unfounded.

I cannot see a person worthy of debating making such a statement personally.

Overtly stupid people should generally to my opinion not be debated with. It seems to fall into the catagory of wasted or defiled speach to my opinion.
They should be left alone to say what they will,it doesn't matter at all.
.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Jnana » Sat May 28, 2011 6:30 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:Say nothing. It's an opinion. He is entitled to it, even if it hurts you. It shouldn't hurt you, you know?

:good:
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 6:45 am

ronnewmexico wrote:The peoples I find on places such as these that have dislike of HHDL to my experience they usually have a political or political agenda problem.


Here's a post from the thread (His post):


"I strongly dislike the entire Lama paradigm. I also think Tibetan Buddhusm is the worst form of Buddhism in existence. The Dalai Lama is merely the head of a bad system, much like the Pope is for Xianity. "
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Dhondrub » Sat May 28, 2011 9:22 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
ronnewmexico wrote:The peoples I find on places such as these that have dislike of HHDL to my experience they usually have a political or political agenda problem.


Here's a post from the thread (His post):


"I strongly dislike the entire Lama paradigm. I also think Tibetan Buddhusm is the worst form of Buddhism in existence. The Dalai Lama is merely the head of a bad system, much like the Pope is for Xianity. "



Just try to find out his adress. We`ll send the Dalai Lamas secret police. :guns:
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby alpha » Sat May 28, 2011 9:29 am

i get the usual :
"How have i benefited from someone getting enlightened ?"or "Have i been saved?No ,i havent i am still suffering.I think you are all deluded in thinking that you can save anybody.People are still suffering.Nobody has been saved yet"
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby muni » Sat May 28, 2011 5:02 pm

Kunga, mind is a filmproducer as soon as it fixate on an object, you get the movie rolling.
Minds' anchor goes to object, this object gets characteristics. Is the object the problem or the grasping?

How many minds there are looking to Tibetan Buddhism, so many ideas and 'their children' there are.

He is teaching. No any one who loves all and so us, pays us teaching in this form. Also words of others have no power on themselves. Smoke letters in the sky.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 6:29 pm

Dhondrub wrote:

Just try to find out his adress. We`ll send the Dalai Lamas secret police. :guns:



lol...he lives in Austrailia...here's his Youtube channel (His name is Dan Rowden) : http://www.youtube.com/user/MenoftheFinite
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 6:47 pm

muni wrote:Kunga, mind is a filmproducer as soon as it fixate on an object, you get the movie rolling.
Minds' anchor goes to object, this object gets characteristics. Is the object the problem or the grasping?

How many minds there are looking to Tibetan Buddhism, so many ideas and 'their children' there are.

He is teaching. No any one who loves all and so us, pays us teaching in this form. Also words of others have no power on themselves. Smoke letters in the sky.



Hi dear Muni _/\_

I'd say grasping is the problemo.
I think there is power in words...all the beautiful words I have read in my study of Buddhism...("Tibetan Buddhism" in particular) have affected me profoundly....yes they are just words...but not just words...it is the energy behind those words...the inspiration...the motivation....words have an effect on all of us...as does the silence....

There are certain types of personalities that are drawn to TB...and it is karma.

I find it just plain arrogance/ignorance for anyone to put down anyones "flavor" of Buddhism.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat May 28, 2011 7:13 pm

KL...I mentioned on another thread not to long ago, these forums may have things appearing in one manner but the actuality being quite another.

One poster from years ago was notorious for his dislike of monks and the ordained. Turns out he tried being a monk once and failed apparently miserably.
Carrying some baggage it appears he was.

So statements such as disliking the institution of lamas and things of that sort.....it may or may not be a solely rational decision based upon facts but like as not..... a personal issue.
Depending upon context I do not advocate just ignoring these peoples summarily. While it is certainly a defilement to waste time with such peoples as nothing personally is accomplished sometimes the forum itself is the point. If such is allowed unchallenged it may become a false thing without refutiation considered true. So in a general or open forum I'd say it depends to a extent upon the audience, or who else frequents the forum.
Mostly it is best to just ignore. Certain peoples perhaps due to past life interactions in some fashions it is probably best that we just stay away from them. Communication is just not possible.


I would however never personalize a thing by nameing names and such. Such a person may become a target of sorts by those well meaning perhaps but not thinking others. I would advocate for editing that post to remove that name. I don't think it is a good thing to name someone. On youtube perhaps the video itself, if that is the nature of the comments being made, could be posted. As youtube is intended to be public we can infer no offense will occur with such a posting. And peoples could comment upon what is filmed.
The forum if it doesn't violate board rules perhaps the forum could be mentioned.
Facebook....no I'd say it's to personal.....that's my opinion.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat May 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Just watched one of his videos. Seems like a smart enough guy. Maybe his point is valid within the context that he made it. It would be interesting (and intelligent) to link to the video/text where he makes his point so we can see what he is saying and make a valid judgement.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 7:24 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:I would however never personalize a thing by nameing names and such. Such a person may become a target of sorts by those well meaning perhaps but not thinking others. I would advocate for editing that post to remove that name. I don't think it is a good thing to name someone.


Well...he's quite influential..and if he wants to be out there in the public influencing others, I think others have the right to correct his misinformation in defense of the Dharma.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 7:35 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Just watched one of his videos. Seems like a smart enough guy. Maybe his point is valid within the context that he made it. It would be interesting (and intelligent) to link to the video/text where he makes his point so we can see what he is saying and make a valid judgement.
:namaste:


Hi Gregkavarnos _/\_
This statement he made on another forum is why I posted this thread:

"I strongly dislike the entire Lama paradigm. I also think Tibetan Buddhusm is the worst form of Buddhism in existence. The Dalai Lama is merely the head of a bad system, much like the Pope is for Xianity. "

I know him from various other forums...and he's always putting down Tibetan Buddhism. He thinks he's Enlightened too.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat May 28, 2011 7:36 pm

Well such things pursued in that manner can have bad effect.

The threat to dharma to my opinion the harm produced would be quite lesser than the harm if someone acted in some fashions on a thing like this.
I know one is not advocating for a inappropriate response, but like walking through a barrior with hundred dollar bills falling out of ones pockets it may be a unwise harm producing things to do, in the end.

Keep in mind we may as well be writing these things on subway walls anyone can read them and occasionally act inappropriately.
Refuting ideas as displayed is way way differing then naming names.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat May 28, 2011 7:42 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:Just watched one of his videos. Seems like a smart enough guy. Maybe his point is valid within the context that he made it. It would be interesting (and intelligent) to link to the video/text where he makes his point so we can see what he is saying and make a valid judgement.
:namaste:


Hi Gregkavarnos _/\_
This statement he made on another forum is why I posted this thread:

"I strongly dislike the entire Lama paradigm. I also think Tibetan Buddhusm is the worst form of Buddhism in existence. The Dalai Lama is merely the head of a bad system, much like the Pope is for Xianity. "

I know him from various other forums...and he's always putting down Tibetan Buddhism. He thinks he's Enlightened too.

A link to the thread?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism...

Postby Kunga Lhadzom » Sat May 28, 2011 7:49 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:A link to the thread?
Last edited by Kunga Lhadzom on Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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