Elements
Re: Elements
Someone said no to something you wanted.adinatha wrote:Teachers will talk openly about the appearances of Togal and what they mean. Teachers will not talk about specifics of method, like postures and gazes. That's the part that's off-limits. ChNN will talk about appearances of tigle and what they mean. Tigle comes even after five lights. So this mum about my question is bullshit.
Why is this a problem?
We all have different samayas, some more restrictive than others. That has to be respected, since our pure samaya is the root cause of awakening.
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
Re: Elements
You're a funny guy. This is bullshit. There are oral instructions of Togal even briefer than this.Namdrol wrote:Ye shes bla ma is only sufficient to begin practice.
CAW!
Re: Elements
adinatha wrote:ChNN will talk about appearances of tigle and what they mean. Tigle comes even after five lights. So this mum about my question is bullshit.
ChNN has advised his students not to discuss these issues. He is my root guru.
Re: Elements
Yes, for example in Yangzab. As I said, insufficient for perfect understanding.adinatha wrote:You're a funny guy. This is bullshit. There are oral instructions of Togal even briefer than this.Namdrol wrote:Ye shes bla ma is only sufficient to begin practice.
BTW, I meant Khenpo Ngachung's commentaries related to ye shes bl ma, of which there are several.
N
Re: Elements
That explains a lot.Namdrol wrote:adinatha wrote:ChNN will talk about appearances of tigle and what they mean. Tigle comes even after five lights. So this mum about my question is bullshit.
ChNN has advised his students not to discuss these issues. He is my root guru.
CAW!
Re: Elements
adinatha wrote:You're a funny guy. This is bullshit. There are oral instructions of Togal even briefer than this.Namdrol wrote:Ye shes bla ma is only sufficient to begin practice.
Does someone need a nap?
"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
Re: Elements
gnegirl wrote:adinatha wrote:You're a funny guy. This is bullshit. There are oral instructions of Togal even briefer than this.Namdrol wrote:Ye shes bla ma is only sufficient to begin practice.
Does someone need a nap?
My wife made me quite caffeine. Grrr!
Last edited by adinatha on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CAW!
Re: Elements
Whatever dude! It's your psychological well-being, you can do anything you want with it. You might actually look quite fetching in a (extremely) long-sleeved white jacket.Enochian wrote:To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Elements
These things were traditionally very secret in Tibet never mind postmodernism and consumerist westerners' angry "I want it all and I want it NOW" attitude. You don't know how one ends up. Even some on certain bhumis go back so we ordinary practitioners have to be extra careful. Look at the two egos doing self PR based on a few experiences in the name of Thogal and printing what was once entrusted on to them. We forget like everything people change too. I don't blame Tibetan masters for being wary considering what unstable range they face.
Last edited by username on Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
Re: Elements
heres a little something on embryology if anyone wishes to read.
http://www.tibetanmedicine-edu.org/inde ... bryology-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hope it brings some benefit.
http://www.tibetanmedicine-edu.org/inde ... bryology-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
hope it brings some benefit.
- swampflower
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- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:18 pm
- Location: Bellefonte, PA
Re: Dzogchen teaching of Tsongkhapa
I have experienced this state of slight respiration.Namdrol wrote:There is also respiration through the skin.Will wrote:Namdrol: prāṇa is a vāyu i.e. prāṇa vāyu (srog dzin rlung) aka "the life sustaining wind". This comes from our breath and no where else.
Not sure about the prana source being only breath. That would mean a deep samadhi state where breath stops, could not last that long - but it does - many hours, days & beyond. Since prana pervades the atmosphere around us, that prana is somehow absorbed during samadhi, without the lungs functioning.
There is no prāṇa as a separate entity. This is a huge misconception. There is a prāṇa vāyu i.e. the breath we inhale.
As far not breathing during certain states of samadhi -- during these state the respiration is so slight it is not noticed. It is still happening however.
It may seem that breath is not occurring but it is very subtly.
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Re: Elements
Namdrol, im trying to seperate how the bright flickering of self knowing in the sterile ground of all, pollutes it, simply by this cognition. It seems this simple energy of cognition dulls awareness, and it unfolds and spreads out coemergent, rigpa/marigpa.
is it worth while trying to seperate to understand?
a bit lost in the terminology.
is it worth while trying to seperate to understand?
a bit lost in the terminology.
Re: Elements
Topic temporarily locked for removal of off topic posts etc.
Topic unlocked. Some posts have been deleted. Some posts have been merged into this topic http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and some other posts have been moved to a new topic "Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen" http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 5&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This topic is called "Elements" please keep the disucssion within the bounds of what is acceptable and permissible. Please refrain from ad homs and off topic posts.
Regards,
rt
Topic unlocked. Some posts have been deleted. Some posts have been merged into this topic http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and some other posts have been moved to a new topic "Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen" http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 5&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This topic is called "Elements" please keep the disucssion within the bounds of what is acceptable and permissible. Please refrain from ad homs and off topic posts.
Regards,
rt
Re: Elements
Heruka wrote:Namdrol, im trying to seperate how the bright flickering of self knowing in the sterile ground of all, pollutes it, simply by this cognition. It seems this simple energy of cognition dulls awareness, and it unfolds and spreads out coemergent, rigpa/marigpa.
is it worth while trying to seperate to understand?
a bit lost in the terminology.
There are two ways to explain this -- one discusses three ignorance: innate, resembling the cause, and imputing ignorances respectively alternately, one discusses two ignorances, innate and imputing. I will stick with the latter explanation for ease.
When the basis arises out of the basis, i.e. when the five lights of wisdom are stirred by vāyu after the shell of the youthful vase body is rent there is a neutral awareness [shes pa lung ma bstan] that does not recognize itself. That simple non-recognition is the innate ignorance. That neutral awareness has two options either it recognizes itself [vidyā], becoming Samantabhadra, or it does not, and through imputing self and other onto the appearance of the basis, creating samsara. That imputation of self and other is the imputing ignorance.
Most people do not realize that Samantabhadra initially possessed the first ignorance. He never possessed the second.
Important point: the nature of the two or three ignorances are the same.
N
Re: Elements
What does that mean?Namdrol wrote: Important point: the nature of the two or three ignorances are the same.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
- Shabkar
Re: Elements
Pero wrote:What does that mean?Namdrol wrote: Important point: the nature of the two or three ignorances are the same.
They lack knowledge.
Re: Elements
Yes, this makes sense, since we are here with minds to objectify suchness.Namdrol wrote: Most people do not realize that Samantabhadra initially possessed the first ignorance. He never possessed the second.
Important point: the nature of the two or three ignorances are the same.
N
can we discuss the casual or innate ignorance as you say, even though they are empty, it is merely mistaking a white conch for yellow because of some "seeing" defect, this is the root of original straying, it is karmic/time dimension in essence a break in the gzhon nu bum pa'i sku youthful vase?
The 5 lights are samantabhardris radiance, ornaments, i.e. wisdoms.
inner/outer ying, the 5 (or 6 lamps, depending on which tradition one reads) and so forth?
Last edited by Heruka on Sun May 01, 2011 12:49 am, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Elements
Ah.Namdrol wrote:Pero wrote:What does that mean?Namdrol wrote: Important point: the nature of the two or three ignorances are the same.
They lack knowledge.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
- Shabkar
Re: Elements
This sounds very, very similar to the instruction/explanation of a type of ignorance that's mentioned at the beginning of Mipham's "Torch of Certainty". Is it the same?Namdrol wrote: When the basis arises out of the basis, i.e. when the five lights of wisdom are stirred by vāyu after the shell of the youthful vase body is rent there is a neutral awareness [shes pa lung ma bstan] that does not recognize itself. That simple non-recognition is the innate ignorance. That neutral awareness has two options either it recognizes itself [vidyā], becoming Samantabhadra, or it does not, and through imputing self and other onto the appearance of the basis, creating samsara. That imputation of self and other is the imputing ignorance.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell