Pure Lands

[Nosta]

If we accept as a real thing the concept of rebirth, the concept of Pure Land will be not that crazy.

In fact its an hard thing to believe in, but no less crazy that the belief on rebirth, karma and many other "out-of-normal" concepts.


Just my humble opinion.

[LastLegend]

Well said^

[tamdrin]

Shambhala is in a physical location on earth and it is in a more subtle level but it will be discovered and there will be a war with the barbaric attackers defeated. Copper colored mountain has even more active functioning concurrent levels within the kayas, hidden in a secret physical location and from what we're told it's actual physical level history, current status and future is much more amazing. But they're both very real.

That is an interesting perspective username, thanks for sharing... It does seem that at a more profound level these realities can effect our reality here on earth...

"tregchod tawai zhing khams su.."

[gnegirl]

Fascinating



(doing my best vulcan imitation)

[Malcolm]

The teachings of Guru Rinpoche say that this world is the pure land of Buddha Shakyamuni.

Well, this is not Guru Rinpoche's teaching, this is standard.

Basically, the term is buddhakṣetra, buddhafield. The Sāhā universe is Shakyamuni's buddhakṣetra or zhing khams. Zhing khams is mistranslated as "pure land" - but there are actually two kinds of zhing khams, pure and impure. Sukhavatu vyuha, Bodhisattva Dipaṃkara's buddhakṣetra, Sukhavati, is a pure buddhakṣetra; the Sāhā universe is impure.

[Madeliaette]

Perhaps we should help to purify the land we already have birth in...?

[Lazy_eye]

Perhaps we should help to purify the land we already have birth in...?

How?

I'm not asking this question rhetorically or facetiously; I'm just curious as to what methods you had in mind.

[LastLegend]

Perhaps we should help to purify the land we already have birth in...?

How?

I'm not asking this question rhetorically or facetiously; I'm just curious as to what methods you had in mind.

It starts with you first.

[Aemilius]

Perhaps we should help to purify the land we already have birth in...?

The Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra, in chapter one, says that this world is pure, but because your mind is not pure you see it as impure and containing all kinds of suffering and unpleasant nasty things.

[Nosta]

But from what Namdrol said, i think that there still exist a difference: this world may be seen as pure if you have high spiritual achievment, but for ordinary beeings is just a dirty world. But with real pure lands, they are simply pure even for "begginers" so to say. For example, assuming that Sukhavati is real (and i hope yes! lol), who ever born/rebirth there will see such world as pure and wont have suffering.

As Namdrol said, there are Zhing khams that are pure and other pure and impure (depending on the beings).

[Jangchup Donden]

Perhaps we should help to purify the land we already have birth in...?

Whose to say you wouldn't be able to better help purify that land if you were reborn in Dewachen, for example?

[Malcolm]

Perhaps we should help to purify the land we already have birth in...?

The Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra, in chapter one, says that this world is pure, but because your mind is not pure you see it as impure and containing all kinds of suffering and unpleasant nasty things.

That is correct and the reason why Vimalakiriti nirdesha says this is by nature a pure realm is that is that there are other Mahāyāna sūtras that identify this loka as an impure realm.

N

[Aemilius]

Some people who have proficiency in meditation have told that after seeing some of the features described in the Amitayur dhyana sutra, that the colours in Sukhavati Pureland are so bright and brilliant that everything here on Earth seems like being just grey.

Some who have seen the lowest Deva realms that are described in the Mandala offering, ones that form the first level above Mount Sumeru, have also said that they are utterly unbelievable in their esthetic quality when compared to the human realm.

[Nosta]

Thats interesting...tell us more about that

[username]

The purelands mentioned in the sutras and tantras do exist in the various levels of nirmanakayas and the various levels of sambhogakays and have different events and functions whose ultimate purpose in essence is the same. If you can not bring yourself to believe in them currently or in this lifetime then that is fine and it's best to just relax about such issues. Earth is in essence a pureland too and even if it wasn't, like many less fortunate planets or world systems of other dimensions, then all the cosmos is a pure multifaceted ornament and illusory reflection of dharmakaya, abiding and unfolding effortlessly and in perpetual and primordial perfection, according to the worldview of Dzogchen.

[Kunzang]

there are actually two kinds of zhing khams, pure and impure. Sukhavatu vyuha, Bodhisattva Dipaṃkara's buddhakṣetra, Sukhavati, is a pure buddhakṣetra; the Sāhā universe is impure.

Isn't there a third kind, "mixed", i.e. pure and impure combined?

I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere in The Flower Ornament Sutra, but finding the specific quote in that giant book would be hard. Also, I'm aware that Cleary's translation isn't considered very reliable, but I think he would have gotten this general idea right.

[username]

IIRC Avatamsaka Sutra states three kinds of lands in-between totally pure and totally impure lands. 1- where purity and impurity are well mixed, 2- where there are pure segment(s) like islands (metaphoric) in a world of impurity & 3- where there are impure segment(s) in a world of purity. IMO there are many subtypes, specially of 1.

It, like Dzogchen, mentions the following in various places.
- Sentient beings see things in various grades of impurity to purity depending where they are on the spectrum of ignorance/enlightenment
- Sentient beings see things in various ways depending on their class. (eg: water is seen differently by a hell being, preta, human, deva, etc.)
- Completely enlightened Buddhas see all as totally pure and exactly what they see is beyond concepts or descriptions.

[kirtu]

One of the Amitabha sutras says that there are levels even in Amitabha's Pure Land. People do experience a pure environment but they experience different levels of it. This view may be restricted to East Asian Buddhism - it may not be a feature of TB view of Dewachen.

Kirt

[Aemilius]

Thats interesting...tell us more about that

Don't be a hungry ghost !
Desiring experiences is a big hindrance. Give that up.
What you can do is practice morality for 1, 2, 3, ... or an infinite number of lifetimes. As a result you will naturally experience the higher realms, and there is nothing special about that.

[Aemilius]

The teachings of Guru Rinpoche say that this world is the pure land of Buddha Shakyamuni.

Well, this is not Guru Rinpoche's teaching, this is standard.

Basically, the term is buddhakṣetra, buddhafield. The Sāhā universe is Shakyamuni's buddhakṣetra or zhing khams. Zhing khams is mistranslated as "pure land" - but there are actually two kinds of zhing khams, pure and impure. Sukhavatu vyuha, Bodhisattva Dipaṃkara's buddhakṣetra, Sukhavati, is a pure buddhakṣetra; the Sāhā universe is impure.

Amitabha started his bodhisattva career as monk Dharmakara.
In a distant past a youth saw Buddha Dipamkara who made a prediction that some time in the future he will be a Buddha called Shakyamuni.