Naturally occuring

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:16 pm

Dear N,
When are you going to realise that you are talking to an enlightened being?
Enough already!
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7894
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby ground » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:10 am

Namdrol wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Kalama sutra says: Own experience has to validate what "the wise" say. No validity per se.


Have you validated what the Buddha was taught?


See

When you know for yourselves that, ...

means "when you have experienced yourself" ... how could you know yourself otherwise?

Continued
... "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.'
...
'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


This is quite straightforward and everbody may experience for themselves.

On the other hand these
...reports, ... legends, ... traditions, ... scripture, ... logical conjecture, ... inference, ... analogies, ... agreement through pondering views, ... probability, ... the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.'

are all suggested to have no validity per se.

And what is at stake here?
Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. ...


Certainty! The counterpart of doubt and wavering is at stake ... so whoever wants certainty to counter doubt which is a hindrance has to rely on own experience primarily.


Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby ground » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:25 am

And now returning to topic, to the OP's question

sangyey wrote:...........every single action for the benefit of others....is this something naturally occurring?


What's the use of such kind of questions other than to practice monkey mind?

There are instructions how to practice bodhicitta and sayings about advantages of bodhicitta.

Just try and experience for yourself whether it is wholesome or unwholsome to practice accordingly.


kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby sangyey » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:41 am

I am sorry that I am unable to contribute to this thread more but I have been suffering (I believe) from a somewhat severe repetitive stress injury from computer keyboard and mouse overuse which has been persisting for quite some. I have a doctor's appointment soon and am trying to limit any computer use right now. I just dont want the other posters to think that I have disappered from my own thread. Hopefully my neck, shoulders, and back will recover shortly.

With metta :heart:
User avatar
sangyey
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Malcolm » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:49 am

TMingyur wrote:
Certainty! The counterpart of doubt and wavering is at stake ... so whoever wants certainty to counter doubt which is a hindrance has to rely on own experience primarily.


Kind regards



The Eastern Gatehouse sutta provides much needed balance to this sutta targeted directly to non-Buddhists.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10171
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby ground » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:55 am

sangyey

Get well soon!

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:00 am

TMingyur wrote:Just try and experience for yourself whether it is wholesome or unwholsome to practice accordingly.
A little difficult when one considers that most of us here are steeped in ignorance, it would be better to report feelings/experiences to a teacher with some level of experience and realisation.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7894
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby ground » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:28 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Just try and experience for yourself whether it is wholesome or unwholsome to practice accordingly.
A little difficult when one considers that most of us here are steeped in ignorance, it would be better to report feelings/experiences to a teacher with some level of experience and realisation.
:namaste:


Sounds strange that someone would not be in a position to assess their own feelings and well-being.
But there are all kinds of people ... who knows.

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:53 pm

TMingyur wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Just try and experience for yourself whether it is wholesome or unwholsome to practice accordingly.
A little difficult when one considers that most of us here are steeped in ignorance, it would be better to report feelings/experiences to a teacher with some level of experience and realisation.
:namaste:


Sounds strange that someone would not be in a position to assess their own feelings and well-being.
But there are all kinds of people ... who knows.

Kind regards
I might gauge my sense of well being by how many gold rolls royces I own, or the amount of cocaine I have available to snort, or other assorted nasties that I won't even bother mentioning on a public forum. You see there is a down side to ignorance (apart from the fact that it is bliss!): It makes it kinda hard to objectively assess criteria of well-being.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7894
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Sherab » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:33 am

TMingyur wrote:Sounds strange that someone would not be in a position to assess their own feelings and well-being.

It is not that strange. More often than not, someone who is mad does not know that he/she is mad. I had known someone like that before. Personal experiences are never 100% reliable while one is still in an unenlightened state.
User avatar
Sherab
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby ground » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:26 am

So it all boils down to your asserting the tenet: Teacher is mandatory for everything. Do not try to think or analyse or read or study or practice or contemplate (or sleep or eat or ... ?) or do anything on your own because you cannot do anything on your own. Why? Because you are just ignorant. Be that as it may I suspect that you are writing your assertions on your own and refer to my signature.

Kind regards
User avatar
ground
 
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Sherab » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:52 am

Cognitive dissonance.
User avatar
Sherab
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:44 am

TMingyur wrote:So it all boils down to your asserting the tenet: Teacher is mandatory for everything. Do not try to think or analyse or read or study or practice or contemplate (or sleep or eat or ... ?) or do anything on your own because you cannot do anything on your own. Why? Because you are just ignorant. Be that as it may I suspect that you are writing your assertions on your own and refer to my signature.

Kind regards
Are we projecting opinions by any chance? Being just a little extreme?

If you believe that you do not need the advice and support of those that are wiser, more intelligent and more experienced than yourself, in order to assist you on the path to liberation then go for it! You won't receive any objections from me!
But you may find that surging forward in blind ignorance, motivated by arrogance and fueled by cognitive dissonance sentient beings are like a mouse in a wheel.
imagesCA9JXL2Q.jpg
imagesCA9JXL2Q.jpg (7.07 KiB) Viewed 506 times

A teachers job is to show the exit from this wheel. Reading the scriptures is the same thing as relying on a realised and experienced teacher. Even the Buddhas students taught the Dharma and I am sure they went to him with all manner of stupid questions.

:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Former staff member
 
Posts: 7894
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Malcolm » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:28 pm

TMingyur wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Just try and experience for yourself whether it is wholesome or unwholsome to practice accordingly.
A little difficult when one considers that most of us here are steeped in ignorance, it would be better to report feelings/experiences to a teacher with some level of experience and realisation.
:namaste:


Sounds strange that someone would not be in a position to assess their own feelings and well-being.
But there are all kinds of people ... who knows.

Kind regards



As you know there are four basic mistakes that people make:

mistaking the painful for pleasure;
the impermanent for permanence;
suffering for happiness,
with lacks identity for identity.

So it is no surprise that ordinary people are unable to assess their own feelings and well-being. We have much evidence that they cannot.

N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10171
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Tom » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:10 am

Namdrol,

Sorry if this is off topic but earlier in the thread you mentioned three types of pramana - I was interested as to why the category of three, given reliable testimony is just a type of inference (no one has objected to this so far). This stumped me at first but I am thinking now that this might be just a convenient presentation based on the categories of phenomena obvious, hidden and deeply hidden. Is this correct?

To bring it back to the thread, someone might assert that one's own feelings are obvious phenomena ... but I guess then they missed the point with the suffering of change being as trixy as it is etc.

Cheers
User avatar
Tom
 
Posts: 346
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:12 pm

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Heruka » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:51 am

TMingyur wrote:Listen "there are ... in buddhism ..." is invalid phrasing. Kind regards


this is just asinine infantile argument. clearly in traditional debate etiquette it is framed as such, just as "Thus I have heard" is common to sutra.

no disrespect, but phrasing defines the parameter of the discussion.
Heruka
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 am

Re: Naturally occuring

Postby Madeliaette » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:53 pm

:offtopic: : Sangyey, I occasionally have a 'possible RSI' wrist problem myself - I think I may have accidentally found a solution though - I accidentally bought a new mouse that came with a too-short cord, so had to put it to my left. Now, i have two mice - one for each hand - so i can give each wrist a rest! If you are in the least bit ambidextrous (SP?) it might be of help to you too.
:focus:
User avatar
Madeliaette
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Currently in Sussex, England. Formerly in Wollongong, Australia.

Previous

Return to Tibetan Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Karma Jinpa, Lhasa and 17 guests

>