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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:04 pm 
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Pemachopel took the words right out of my mouth...

Recommend you check out the Lojong, or Mind Training. Many books are available--I like "Great Path of Awakening." This is based on the "Seven Points of Mind Training," and is Mahayana practice. Quintessential, even......

Search for "Mind Training," "Lojong," and see what you come up with.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:25 pm 
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pemachophel wrote:
Padme,

Practices which are Tibetan Buddhist and Mahayana but not Vajrayana:

Lo-do Nam-zhi (The four topics that turn the mind)
Tong Len
Lo Jong

You might want to do word searches for those topics. These are very wonderful, very powerful and positive practices.

Also, the three lower tantras (kriya, carya, and yoga) are tantrayana, not, strictly speaking, Vajrayana. Vajrayana only refers to the three higher tantras (Maha, Anu, and Ati). Some of the practices others have suggested to you, such as Tara and Medicine Buddha, are often practiced from either the sutra or tantrayana POV or level. When practiced from the sutrayana level, no absolute need for a Teacher. Best if we all reserve the word "Vajrayana" to specifically mean (at least within the Nyingma school) the three higher tantras.


Thank you! Thank you thank you thank you!! :bow: THAT is exactly what I wanted to know. Now I can try to find out some of the specific practices, observations, meditations, etc. of these traditions, if there are any specific to these practices. :applause:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Padme wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
..... these are all extremely important and focused on in Tibetan Buddhism but are not Vajrayana, ....


That is what I've been trying to find out Adamantine, if there are Tibetan practices that are not Vajrayana. Some have said yes, some have said no, hence my confusion. That's what I'm trying to focus on and learn more about before I even attempt to endeavor Vajrayana, if I even do at all.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out now. :smile:


I see the point where you are getting confused. I think what will clarify this all is to know that the people who have said no are trying to explain to you that there are probably no Tibetan Buddhists now or traditionally who do not practice some form of Tantra. But to be clear, they will still practice taking refuge and the basic outer conduct related refuge vows, which all Buddhists take and relate to the Hinayana school-- these are avoiding the 10 non-virtues and cultivating the 10 virtues. They will also practice many Mahayana practices related to taking the Bodhisattva vows-- cultivating the 6 perfections, mind-training / lojong, etc. These are all the foundation for engaging in tantric practice if and when one chooses to. So I think the answers maybe just weren't that clear, but they were not contradictory. Are there practices in Tibetan Buddhism that are not Tantric or Vajrayana? Yes, absolutely. Are there Tibetan Buddhists who do not practice Tantra or Vajrayana? Maybe, but if so they are unusual, and there is no school or lineage of Tibetan Buddhism that specializes in Hinayana or Mahayana practice without engaging in Vajrayana as part of their exposition of the path. Tibetan Buddhism specializes in presenting all the vehicles together, building on one another. So yes, there are many practices you can do without meeting a teacher, or eventually a Guru, in person and without transmission. I apologize for being one of the many that misunderstood your initial question, but I hope things are clearer now!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:26 pm 
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conebeckham wrote:
Pemachopel took the words right out of my mouth...

Recommend you check out the Lojong, or Mind Training. Many books are available--I like "Great Path of Awakening." This is based on the "Seven Points of Mind Training," and is Mahayana practice. Quintessential, even......

Search for "Mind Training," "Lojong," and see what you come up with.


Great! Thank you for those references, I will look them up now. Thanks so much! :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Adamantine wrote:
Padme wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
..... these are all extremely important and focused on in Tibetan Buddhism but are not Vajrayana, ....


That is what I've been trying to find out Adamantine, if there are Tibetan practices that are not Vajrayana. Some have said yes, some have said no, hence my confusion. That's what I'm trying to focus on and learn more about before I even attempt to endeavor Vajrayana, if I even do at all.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out now. :smile:


I see the point where you are getting confused. I think what will clarify this all is to know that the people who have said no are trying to explain to you that there are probably no Tibetan Buddhists now or traditionally who do not practice some form of Tantra. But to be clear, they will still practice taking refuge and the basic outer conduct related refuge vows, which all Buddhists take and relate to the Hinayana school-- these are avoiding the 10 non-virtues and cultivating the 10 virtues. They will also practice many Mahayana practices related to taking the Bodhisattva vows-- cultivating the 6 perfections, mind-training / lojong, etc. These are all the foundation for engaging in tantric practice if and when one chooses to. So I think the answers maybe just weren't that clear, but they were not contradictory. Are there practices in Tibetan Buddhism that are not Tantric or Vajrayana? Yes, absolutely. Are there Tibetan Buddhists who do not practice Tantra or Vajrayana? Maybe, but if so they are unusual, and there is no school or lineage of Tibetan Buddhism that specializes in Hinayana or Mahayana practice without engaging in Vajrayana as part of their exposition of the path. Tibetan Buddhism specializes in presenting all the vehicles together, building on one another. So yes, there are many practices you can do without meeting a teacher, or eventually a Guru, in person and without transmission. I apologize for being one of the many that misunderstood your initial question, but I hope things are clearer now!


No need to apologize, the fault is probably my own for wording it too vaguely and/or using improper terminology. I'm just glad to have some clarity now. You've been patient and helpful and I appreciate your replies and everyone elses' as well. Yes, things are clearer now! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:28 pm 
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I've just remembered these two books that are very good guides to Tibetan Buddhism:

http://www.amazon.com/Indestructible-Tr ... pd_sim_b_1
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Vajra-Worl ... =8-1-spell

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