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Agree with this view on morality? - Dhamma Wheel

Agree with this view on morality?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
a modest mouse
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Agree with this view on morality?

Postby a modest mouse » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:34 pm

"If morality is to function as an efficient guide to conduct, it cannot be propounded as a self-justifying scheme but must be embedded in a more comprehensive spiritual system which grounds morality in a transpersonal order. Religion must affirm, in the clearest terms, that morality and ethical values are not mere decorative frills of personal opinion, not subjective superstructure, but intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality." ~ Bhikkhu Bodhi (second president of the Buddhist Publication Society)

Would a Buddhist also agree with Socrates notion of the Good:

"in the region of the knowable the last thing to be seen, and that with considerable effort, is the idea of good; but once seen, it must be concluded that this is indeed the cause for all things of all that is right and beautiful – in the visible realm it gives birth to light and its sovereign; in the intelligible realm, itself sovereign, it provided truth and intelligence – and that the man who is going to act prudently in private or in public must see it"

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Kim OHara
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:48 pm

Mostly.
Neither of the quotes is exactly how I would put my beliefs, but I would rarely disagree with anyone who agreed with, and followed, those statements.
:anjali:
Kim

Calahand
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Calahand » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:04 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:05 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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AdvaitaJ
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby AdvaitaJ » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:16 am

I think Bhikku Bodhi got a bit too flowery at the end, but otherwise agree with the statement. As for Socrates, his statement was a bridge too far.

Regards: AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
Li Bai

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Prasadachitta » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:45 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Ben
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:41 am

Hi modest mouse
I suspect the two quotes you presented may actually be pointing, at the apparent level, towards two different things.
Certainly Socrates was concerned with 'public' morality or the morality of state. Secondly, from some of the Ancient greek philosophers we can see that another concern of theirs was something akin to Dhamma, that is 'the law universal' or 'the noble life'.
This is opposed, on the apparent level, to Bhikkhu Bodhi's quote which seems to be more about personal morality and the need for a code of conduct to be set within a greater spiritual context.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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a modest mouse
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby a modest mouse » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:08 am


a modest mouse
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:28 pm

Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby a modest mouse » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:12 am


a modest mouse
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:28 pm

Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby a modest mouse » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:18 am


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Ben
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:26 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Lampang
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Lampang » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:42 am


a modest mouse
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby a modest mouse » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:14 am


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Ben
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:13 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Cittasanto
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:19 am

Hi a modest mouse,
bhodhi is talking about where morality needs to be based for it to be effective in peoples lives, not what morality is as such.
The Good was used in various ways in Greek thought, not solely referring to morality, the analogy of the cave, where your quote comes from, expresses plato's theory of ideas/forms, not morality it self.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Jechbi
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Re: Agree with this view on morality?

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:44 pm

Hello modest,

With respect to individual practice, one danger might be to view morality as something separate from and independent of oneself, something "out there." The reason this type of view can be counterproductive is because it reinforces the notion of a self in the first place, a self that stands on its own, separate from some other aspect of reality to be experienced.

The Buddha teaches that there is no such thing to be found. This, right here and now, is . The five physical senses, and your ideas. That's what you experience. That's why Ben talks about how the first person one hurts in breeching morality is oneself.

This approach seems to fit with the Socrates quote, in that when one sees with considerable effort the idea of good, it constitutes a greater knowledge of "the all" as defined by the Buddha.


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