Non duality.

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Non duality.

Postby muni » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:12 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauF1rAHJfU

"Without non duality we are lost".

To try to describe can turn us entangled in concepts and delusion and so lost.
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby ground » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:25 pm

muni wrote:"Without non duality we are lost".


"We"?

Trapped!

Gotta get this thingy :rolling:

Kind regards
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:37 pm

TMingyur wrote:
muni wrote:"Without non duality we are lost".


"We"?

Trapped!

Gotta get this thingy :rolling:

Kind regards


We aren't separate but we are not a kind of mistaken oneness.

You listen to Rinpoche youtube, Mingyur?
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby ground » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:44 pm

muni wrote:You listen to Rinpoche youtube, Mingyur?


Yes I did.

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Re: Non duality.

Postby Mariusz » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:50 am

muni wrote:"Without non duality we are lost".


This is from what POV, Tsongkhapa or non-Tsongkhapa? Sentient beings find the duality neccessary I think... for their practice also.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:52 pm

Mariusz wrote:
muni wrote:"Without non duality we are lost".


This is from what POV, Tsongkhapa or non-Tsongkhapa? Sentient beings find the duality neccessary I think... for their practice also.


Kind of negation, Mariusz? Dzongzar Rinpoche talks about on 2/3 of the youtube: Negation of existence and difficult negation of non existence.

Through practices like to melt the two ice cubes the subject-object which become by costums solid; fictituous. By that beings lose open dimension and then are so called sentient. ( part Longchenpa teaching)
Paramitas are correct practice.

Oh now I remember a teacher saying (forgot who) when we are calm in bed, not yet sleepy and not running behind the flow of passing thought, we can simple experience what cannot be expressed.
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Mariusz » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:49 am

muni wrote:
Mariusz wrote:
muni wrote:"Without non duality we are lost".


This is from what POV, Tsongkhapa or non-Tsongkhapa? Sentient beings find the duality neccessary I think... for their practice also.


Kind of negation, Mariusz? Dzongzar Rinpoche talks about on 2/3 of the youtube: Negation of existence and difficult negation of non existence.

Through practices like to melt the two ice cubes the subject-object which become by costums solid; fictituous. By that beings lose open dimension and then are so called sentient. ( part Longchenpa teaching)
Paramitas are correct practice.

Oh now I remember a teacher saying (forgot who) when we are calm in bed, not yet sleepy and not running behind the flow of passing thought, we can simple experience what cannot be expressed.


But Madhyamaka is always neutral because safe valid cognition that everyone can do. Here duality is explained clearly. Yogacara is the supplement. The pith instructions of the highest methods like Dzogchen are "pointing out" only for the particular individuals:) Not easy to get what Rinpoche meant about this "non duality". I guess it deals with Dzogchen teaching to His students. But interesting.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:08 pm

Dzongzar Khyentse Rinpoche: http://goosebumps4all.net/justdzongsar/tag/nonduality/


Some info about negations. http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion ... -week.html

http://books.google.be/books?id=o2SutnT ... ce&f=false


A nondual exercise I heard this weekend for fruitful debates:
When one, like here on a forum for example is irritating or so by whatever he-she says, one can percieve that poster as ones "own child or other who need our care" and instead of spitting some delusion in his-her face, we can embrace with tender care in wholeness. Irritation is less than wind forsure. Then ready to send answer.
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby ground » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:49 am

muni wrote:A nondual exercise I heard this weekend for fruitful debates:
When one, like here on a forum for example is irritating or so by whatever he-she says, one can percieve that poster as ones "own child or other who need our care" and instead of spitting some delusion in his-her face, we can embrace with tender care in wholeness. Irritation is less than wind forsure. Then ready to send answer.


Hmh ... sounds very dualistic :tongue:

Kind regards
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Hanzze » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:32 am

The Middle Path

The road to peace is called the middle path. It is beyond all duality and all opposites. Sometimes it is called equanimity. Equanimity harmonizes all extremes. Equanimity is like the finely-tuned string of an instrument, not too tight and not too loose. It vibrates perfectly and makes beautiful music.
Equanimity means the absence of struggle. One time a great elephant jumped into a mud hole to cool off. Of course he got stuck, and the more he struggled, the deeper he sank! Struggling is useless. It only makes things worse. Do not struggle with suffering. Find your own path. This is called taking refuge in the Dharma. The Dharma is the middle path.
Before the Buddha began his spiritual journey, he indulged in many kinds of sensual pleasures, but he found no lasting happiness. After that, he fasted for many weeks, untile he became pale and thin, but he found only pain. Practicing in this way, the Buddha learned that both self-indulgence and self-mortification are extremes, and extremes can never bring happiness.
Peace comes only when we stop struggling with opposites. The middle path has no beginning and no end, so we do not need to travel far on the middle path to find peace. The middle path is not only the road to peace, it is also the road of peace. It is safe, and very pleasant to travel.

(from “Step by Step” by Maha Ghosananda)
Just that! :-)
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:45 am

TMingyur wrote:
muni wrote:A nondual exercise I heard this weekend for fruitful debates:
When one, like here on a forum for example is irritating or so by whatever he-she says, one can percieve that poster as ones "own child or other who need our care" and instead of spitting some delusion in his-her face, we can embrace with tender care in wholeness. Irritation is less than wind forsure. Then ready to send answer.


Hmh ... sounds very dualistic :tongue:

Kind regards


As all language. Still without non duality; there are no paramitas.
To act without observing an object-one somewhere outside of own mind, without the cut of subject-object. Mingyur, if you listened the youtube you could hear that even to give a cup to another we cannot do without the non duality.
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
muni
 
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:25 am

Hanzze wrote:The Middle Path

The middle path is not only the road to peace, it is also the road of peace. It is safe, and very pleasant to travel.

(from “Step by Step” by Maha Ghosananda)


:namaste:
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
muni
 
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Mariusz » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:41 am

muni wrote:
Hanzze wrote:The Middle Path

The middle path is not only the road to peace, it is also the road of peace. It is safe, and very pleasant to travel.

(from “Step by Step” by Maha Ghosananda)


:namaste:



Agree, the middle path according to Theravada is the peace although not all tibetans appreciate it.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:52 am

Mariusz wrote:
muni wrote:
Hanzze wrote:The Middle Path

The middle path is not only the road to peace, it is also the road of peace. It is safe, and very pleasant to travel.

(from “Step by Step” by Maha Ghosananda)


:namaste:



Agree, the middle path according to Theravada is the peace although not all tibetans appreciate it.

Let me guess they also see precepts are not as important. Pendulum stays pendulum, how big the attitude might be. Every pendulum can stuck, so just give it a push. Seek for peace or precepts are always and in every tradition a good push to get it swing out again.

Buddha Dharma has nothing to do with Tibetan/Theravada also not with appreciate or not. Maybe you mean the push that moves somebody out of an illusion of peace, so that he finds real peace. Well, that is good if the pendulum sticks on the other side.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Mariusz » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:56 pm

Hanzze wrote:
Let me guess they also see precepts are not as important. Pendulum stays pendulum, how big the attitude might be. Every pendulum can stuck, so just give it a push. Seek for peace or precepts are always and in every tradition a good push to get it swing out again.

Buddha Dharma has nothing to do with Tibetan/Theravada also not with appreciate or not. Maybe you mean the push that moves somebody out of an illusion of peace, so that he finds real peace. Well, that is good if the pendulum sticks on the other side.


I like reading about the forest tradition monks amasing experiences and wonder how they can be measured? But of course in the indian/tibetan sources there are explanations how they differ, for example bodhicaryaavatara on solitary realizers.
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:09 pm

Dear Mariusz,

can you explain a language or more handicapped monkey what "bodhicaryaavatara on solitary realizers" means so that he can try to understand it, as far duality makes it possible.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:25 pm

Mariusz wrote:
muni wrote:
Hanzze wrote:The Middle Path

The middle path is not only the road to peace, it is also the road of peace. It is safe, and very pleasant to travel.

(from “Step by Step” by Maha Ghosananda)


:namaste:



Agree, the middle path according to Theravada is the peace although not all tibetans appreciate it.


Middle way?? I have no aspirin to undo clinging or rejecting of teachings. One can investigate.
Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
muni
 
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Mariusz » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:46 pm

muni wrote:Middle way?? I have no aspirin to undo clinging or rejecting of teachings. One can investigate.

I also think this is offtopic that can be somehow fever :smile: If really interested for investigation I recommend well-known "The Center of the Sunlit Sky: Madhyamaka in the Kagyu Tradition (Nitartha Institute Series)" where commentary on Bodhicaryaavatara
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Re: Non duality.

Postby Hanzze » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:57 pm

Mariusz wrote:
muni wrote:Middle way?? I have no aspirin to undo clinging or rejecting of teachings. One can investigate.

I also think this is offtopic that can be somehow fever :smile: If really interested for investigation I recommend well-known "The Center of the Sunlit Sky: Madhyamaka in the Kagyu Tradition (Nitartha Institute Series)" where commentary on Bodhicaryaavatara

Dear Mariusz,

first, thanks of getting knowing of Santideva and the expressions in Bodhicaryaavatara. As the point of discussion was middle path as one interpretation of non duality, and your point: not all Tibetans appreciate the middle way, this explaining could be useful. Otherwise some could believe that some traditions do not see the middle path in its perfection as non-duality. If so it could be that the middle path would be useless.
I guess there is no dissertation needed, just a view words would make it clear, I guess.

If anyone, having focused on me,
Develops an angry or negative mind,
May that always turn into a cause
For fulfilling all of his or her aims.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Non duality.

Postby muni » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:37 pm

Theories can create an illusory distance between us and enlightenment.
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