Re: Discussing About One's Guru Openly
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:22 am
the buddha is your guru.
where is this internal conflict?
where is this internal conflict?
A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
https://www.dharmawheel.net:443/
Yes. He has set the standards. He is the measure for all other teachers ... at least for me.Heruka wrote:the buddha is your guru.
where is this internal conflict?
Similarly, it is said that the true nature of one's mind is the secret guru.Heruka wrote:the buddha is your guru.
where is this internal conflict?
But it is based on the concern for others with reference to what you yourself do and say after having revealed your guru! You cannot know the mind of others and the unconscious imprints your conduct may have on witnesses in the context of having revealed your guru to them.Ngawang Drolma wrote: When others write things that seem off-base to me, I would never assume it's necessarily the responsibility of the spiritual friend. So I may be a little self-conscious in my behavior.
Sorry but you completely misunderstood what I have written. What I have written referred to three possibilities:Ogyen wrote:TMingyur's logic is based on a possibility, and certainly assumes one is incapable of being adult about their decisions. If you make a mistake, have the balls to stand behind it and make amends. If you damage your teacher's reputation, make amends.
I would like to advise to never reveal one's teacher publicly. Why? Own wrongdoing that becomes known or every nonsensical talk one is unable to refrain from may cast a cloud over the teacher in the eyes of others. The teacher may be an arya who may benefit others, oneself may be only ordinary.
Beautiful and honest. Thanks.Ogyen wrote:I took refuge with Lama Dawa Rinpoche. I am seeking studentship with Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche. As well as Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche, and Ogyen Trinley Dorje. These are the teachers I desire deep in my heart to learn from.
My actions positive and negative are always tied to those who share and exchange with me. I have no need to conceal my teachers as they are pillars of truth and source of strength for me, and if my words are poor enough to turn someone away, it is my karma. I cannot micromanage other people's minds or reactions to my words, I can however very clearly manage my own reactions and words. I use my best judgment to speak, and usually only when it benefits others in seeing that they can take hold of their own mind.
My intention is never to turn anyone away from dharma. I don't believe in making decisions out of fear. That i might mar my teacher's reputation is a decision that would made in fear (that I might hurt something being honest) that is not concrete now. What difference does it make if you know who taught me or not, if I am honest and wise or foolish and childish, it is not because of my teacher but because of what I've cultivated within me.
TMingyur's logic is based on a possibility, and certainly assumes one is incapable of being adult about their decisions. If you make a mistake, have the balls to stand behind it and make amends. If you damage your teacher's reputation, make amends.
I am not a bad person, I make mistakes, my teachers in my life have all known this, it's no news because I'm quite ordinary this way. No one expects me to be perfect. If anything, it's called practice because it's just that. Practicing being a Buddha. They know I will stumble. I do too. They know I will fall. I do too. They don't say, "Don't make me look bad to your friends" lol
So I completely disagree with the premise, but I can understand how different people hold different truths within themselves. Don't think of it as hurting your teacher, think of it as if you're an @$$ can you stand behind your mistake and say, yes, I screwed up and now I will fix it. That's I think the real lesson there. Some may not feel comfortable divulging their teachers and they'd be fully valid and right to feel the way they do BECAUSE they do. If you don't feel comfortable don't do it. After all, you are the manager of truth in your head. No one else.
I have nothing to hide, my life is an open book, you can know who my teachers are and even tell them I'm a bad student, it doesn't matter a wit in terms of what I understand or don't understand. My realization happens when I'm ready and not a breath sooner. I just do my best, and always remember you do too.
D. Ogyen
Is he that awesome Nyingma ngakpa lama who does the mirror divinations? If so, then that's very cool that you took refuge with him. I've never met him, but I think he's fantastic.Ogyen wrote:I took refuge with Lama Dawa Rinpoche.
That sounds poetic, but I think in reality, we each have many things to hide. For example, I don't think you would want to post your credit number or your home address on a public forum (and please don't interpret this as a challenge--I most certainly don't want you to put yourself at risk!). Or on a less serious note, when I have gas, I don't announce it to my students and am just grateful that they are loud sometimes.... So there are even many ordinary things which regular people won't discuss openly.Ogyen wrote: I have nothing to hide, my life is an open book, you can know who my teachers are and even tell them I'm a bad student, it doesn't matter a wit in terms of what I understand or don't understand.
Yes this is trueTMingyur wrote:Ngawang Drolma wrote: When others write things that seem off-base to me, I would never assume it's necessarily the responsibility of the spiritual friend. So I may be a little self-conscious in my behavior.But it is based on the concern for others with reference to what you yourself do and say after having revealed your guru! You cannot know the mind of others and the unconscious imprints your conduct may have on witnesses in the context of having revealed your guru to them.
Kind regards
Yeshe wrote:Aspects of my practice are secret and will always remain so, and there are vows about what may be revealed to people defined as suitable, for example those who are dharma brothers and sisters who shared the same empowerment as me with a particular root guru.
So it is simply not possible for me to be like Ogyen.
I would reveal other details of my guru, his teachings and our practices if I thought it to be beneficial. On that basis, if I don't think it to be beneficial, I wouldn't do so on the web.
We must also avoid boasting about our guru in idle gossip, as this would be inappropriate attachment.
As has already been posted, we should also be mindful of the effects of our karma on others as well as ourselves.
ExactlyOgyen wrote:I took refuge with Lama Dawa Rinpoche. I am seeking studentship with Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche. As well as Dzigar Kongtrul Rinpoche, and Ogyen Trinley Dorje. These are the teachers I desire deep in my heart to learn from.
My actions positive and negative are always tied to those who share and exchange with me. I have no need to conceal my teachers as they are pillars of truth and source of strength for me, and if my words are poor enough to turn someone away, it is my karma. I cannot micromanage other people's minds or reactions to my words, I can however very clearly manage my own reactions and words. I use my best judgment to speak, and usually only when it benefits others in seeing that they can take hold of their own mind.
My intention is never to turn anyone away from dharma. I don't believe in making decisions out of fear. That i might mar my teacher's reputation is a decision that would made in fear (that I might hurt something being honest) that is not concrete now. What difference does it make if you know who taught me or not, if I am honest and wise or foolish and childish, it is not because of my teacher but because of what I've cultivated within me.
TMingyur's logic is based on a possibility, and certainly assumes one is incapable of being adult about their decisions. If you make a mistake, have the balls to stand behind it and make amends. If you damage your teacher's reputation, make amends.
I am not a bad person, I make mistakes, my teachers in my life have all known this, it's no news because I'm quite ordinary this way. No one expects me to be perfect. If anything, it's called practice because it's just that. Practicing being a Buddha. They know I will stumble. I do too. They know I will fall. I do too. They don't say, "Don't make me look bad to your friends" lol
So I completely disagree with the premise, but I can understand how different people hold different truths within themselves. Don't think of it as hurting your teacher, think of it as if you're an @$$ can you stand behind your mistake and say, yes, I screwed up and now I will fix it. That's I think the real lesson there. Some may not feel comfortable divulging their teachers and they'd be fully valid and right to feel the way they do BECAUSE they do. If you don't feel comfortable don't do it. After all, you are the manager of truth in your head. No one else.
I have nothing to hide, my life is an open book, you can know who my teachers are and even tell them I'm a bad student, it doesn't matter a wit in terms of what I understand or don't understand. My realization happens when I'm ready and not a breath sooner. I just do my best, and always remember you do too.
D. Ogyen
I guess I see things in more impersonal terms. The reason I joined Buddhist forums was to obtain more information about Buddhism and to discuss Buddhism (for example, two people can discuss the Diamond Sutra in a meaningful way without knowing a thing about each other). Only later on, did I realize that I actually liked getting to know some of the members.Ogyen wrote: Isn't that the whole point of this internet connecting with other folks far away in body, but right here in stride online.