Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Chaz » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:52 am

Pero wrote:
Chaz wrote: My PI said to begin.


Wow, you hired a private investigator to tell you when to begin with ngondro? :D



No, "Practice Instructor" and she wasn't hired.
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Adamantine » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:19 am

Pero wrote:
mudra wrote:Again no disagreement with quality over quantity, but I do have an objection to simply reciting mentally. According to the instructions I received, the practitioner should actually recite the mantra verbally so that he/she can hear the mantra him/herself. It should be discreet, but audible to oneself at least.


Adamantine wrote:Definitely. The point is to simultaneously practice with body, speech, and mind, and thus simultaneously purify all three. Actually vocalizing mantras is said to have the effect of purifying all manner of past negative speech and obscurations of speech.


Ah interesting, thanks!


Well speech is also shorthand for the inner winds, but you know that. ;)
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby mudra » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:57 am

Hi Adamantine,
wasn't that quote (Definitiely etc...) from Pema Rigdzin?
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Adamantine » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:29 am

mudra wrote:Hi Adamantine,
wasn't that quote (Definitiely etc...) from Pema Rigdzin?


ha ha I guess so.. I couldn't remember writing it but it's certainly something I could've written.. but then why is my name on it? :shrug:
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Pero » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:11 am

I LOLed quite a bit when I saw your posts, it was my blunder, I don't know what I was thinking haha. :smile:

Chaz wrote:No, "Practice Instructor" and she wasn't hired.

:smile:
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby kvy » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:26 pm

My Root Guru was a direct disciple of Dudjom Rinpoche, and he encouraged me to chant mantras both on and off the cushion, because, in his words, it's the same mind!

In terms of quality, in my experience that depends on the strength of devotion, as well as external factors like challenging life situations that can turn the heat up in one's practice. While those variables change, practice can continue, so I try not to worry too much about practice being "good enough"- I simply do it and relax with what arises.

Accumulation can be thought of as a skillful means to keep one on track as opposed to something one has to "accomplish". I personally find that there is A LOT of time to practice mantra throughout the day, it's just a question of paying attention to the opportunities- walking, taking the bus etc.

Similarly one can rest the mind at any time. Perhaps that is the beauty of Kali Yuga- it challenges us and forces us to bring everything to the path in order to stay sane, and our creative opportunity is to practice in the midst of chaos!
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Osho » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:54 pm

Once round the mala.
108.
Job jobbed.
:smile:
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby pemachophel » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:01 pm

A friend of mine, a 40-plus-year, mostly-in-retreat student of Chatral Rinpoche recently mentioned that he had done 1000 bum of the Guru mantra in La-drub Thig-le Gya-chen. Somewhat more than once around the mala and job done.

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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby heart » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:38 pm

pemachophel wrote:A friend of mine, a 40-plus-year, mostly-in-retreat student of Chatral Rinpoche recently mentioned that he had done 1000 bum of the Guru mantra in La-drub Thig-le Gya-chen. Somewhat more than once around the mala and job done.

:namaste:


:good:

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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Osho » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:08 pm

Yep.
Horses for courses.
All respect to those who do lots.
:namaste:
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby LordD » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:51 am

What is the meaning of word "bum"? :) My standard is 1000/session.
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby heart » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:14 am

LordD wrote:What is the meaning of word "bum"? :) My standard is 1000/session.


Bum means 100.000 mantras, these are normally recited for each syllable in the mantra. If you have a mantra the mani it contains 6 syllables then the minimum is reciting it 600.000 times.

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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Motova » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:58 am

What would be the signs of reciting enough mantras?
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby heart » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:45 am

Motova wrote:What would be the signs of reciting enough mantras?


Depends on the practice but recognizing and gaining confidence the natural state would be the best sign.

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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Adamantine » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:26 pm

I'm not sure if the math in the OP really adds up to reality-- just out of curiosity I stop watch timed a session of a 12-syllable mantra and got 1000 recitations in about 8.5 minutes. And that was with pauses for very brief meditation between each 108. So without pauses it'd probably be closer to 6 minutes for 10,000. But even with pauses that'd be 10,000 in about an hour and a half. So it really doesn't seem so far-fetched even for busy modern lay-practitioners. . .But maybe some people chant slowly and melodically. I know Garchen Rinpoche recommends singing some mantras with sincerity and beautiful melody, and not really counting in a conventional way. . .
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Tsultrim T. » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:18 pm

It's been a little while since my main practice focused on Ngondro, but I completed mine as a pretty much full time practitioner in Nepal and India. This was in my early 20s when I was extremely fit and I would max out at about 4,000 prostrations a day. I did them in 4 x 2.5 hours sessions with breaks in between. Any more than that and it seems extremely unlikely that one would be able to physically do it or do quality prostrations and recitations. Then I completed the Dorge Sempa accumulations in a 4 week retreat where about 18 hours a day were focused on recitation. The rest was not as time consuming after the first two parts.

I know many students of Chatral Rinpoche as well and he asks them to complete the ngondro in a 3 month period under retreat like conditions. I believe that is probably the the fastest/most accumulations per day I have ever heard of and it is borderline impossible. Many cannot complete the accumulations in that time frame.

The important thing is to go at a pace that suits you and that you can gain something from. The most annoying people I ever encountered were the ones who wanted to "compete" with accumulations. Really if that is one's attitude, what's the point?
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Reibeam » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:48 pm

Here is a question about accumulation of mantras:

If one has multiple transmissions lung/wang/tri from different teachers of different lineages for different manifestation of the same deity does accumulation apply if you do different practices for the same deity depending on circumstances? Say you are always practicing the same deity, but if you have time you do a long gradual transformation sadhana and if you don't have time you might do a short instant transformation practice. Do you keep counting Bum toward accumulation?

The other part of this is........some teachers transmit "Vajra" and some use "Benza" as part of the mantra. How does that work with accumulation? they are of the same essence, but part of the transmission is how it is spoken. Like getting the same mantra from teachers who are from either end of tibet. They sound different.

chNNr said once that all practice commitments to a specific deity from different teachers can be unified like in Guru Yoga, but I never asked him how that worked with accumulation of mantra.
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Konchok Namgyal » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:36 am

Virtually every great master I have ever heard of did ngondro after ngondro over and over repeated many many times, I do know for a fact that some are done as a lifetime practice.
I for one, do not ever think i will be " pure " enough and I will as time allows also keep doing ngondro in addition to my other practices.
I agree that quality , not just quantity is very important..if all you are doing is sitting there mumbling, then perhaps there is something else you should be doing with your time.
just my two cents....
Oh and I will add, as in ANYTHING having to do with Vajrayana...ask your teacher first !
Recognize that your mind is the unity of being empty and cognizant, suffused with knowing. When your attention is extroverted, you fall under the sway of thoughts. Let your attention recognize itself. Recognize that it is empty. That which recognizes is the cognizance. You can trust at that moment that these two – emptiness and cognizance – are an original unity. Seeing this is called self-knowing wakefulness. ~ Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby Ayu » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:35 am

Konchok Namgyal wrote:...
Oh and I will add, as in ANYTHING having to do with Vajrayana...ask your teacher first !

Yes. Because the answer to such a question depends on time, person and teacher. Some teachers are very strict, others say: "I'm happy if you practice at all anyhow." Sometimes even the same teacher is very permissive now and very rigorous then - and even to the same student only two years later.
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Re: Mantra Recitation - Do You Do Enough?

Postby PorkChop » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:56 pm

Just out of curiosity, I did an experiment.
108 Nembutsu chants in the style typical of Jodo Shu, as fast as I could do it, was just about 2 min 10 sec (130sec).
A jodo shu mala has a 40 bead minor counter (plus Guru bead), a 27 bead major counter, a 10 bead cycle counter, and a 6 bead decacycle counter.
This gives a grand total of 64,800 repetitions in a full Jodo Shu mala.

1080 = 1300sec = 21 min 40 sec.
3 of these = 3240 = 3900sec = 65 min.
1 decacycle = 10800 = 13000sec = 216 min 40 sec = 3 hrs 36 min 40 sec.
1 complete mala = 64800 = 78000sec = 1300 min = 21 hrs 40 min.

All this math has done is verify that I'm slow, :) even though for individual recitations, my way might be slightly quicker than the Jodo Shu standard. My 3 cycle (3240) time was probably closer to 75 minutes, because total time including Sukhavati Sutra reading was 85 to 90 minutes, but obviously my protocol for keeping time wasn't particularly accurate. So I'll have to do further testing for larger numbers.

The reason this interests me, is that 1 decacycle (10,000+) is the recommended amount in Jodo Shu, whereas anything over 30,000 is considered high level.
I've had a really hard time understanding how to be able to pull this off as a guy with a difficult job and a family.
I can't imagine how you guys do it with really high numbers of full-body prostrations.
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