Beginning a Ngöndro

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Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu May 15, 2014 1:04 pm

For anyone just starting on Ngöndro, it's vital to understand and fully internalize the Four Thoughts that turn the mind away from Samsara and toward the Dharma: precious human birth, impermanence, karma cause & effect, and the defects of Samsara. These four are what's known as the "outer preliminaries" or the "ordinary foundations" --- but don't let these designations fool you in the slightest. Just because they are sutric in origin and common to all forms of Buddhism doesn't make them lesser in any sense, nor are they beneath any Vajrayana practitioner. They're an integral part of Ngöndro, and their proper contemplation is the essential first step in the process. They precede the tantric "inner preliminaries" or "extraordinary foundations" that we typically think of when we hear the term "ngöndro," and are often contemplated intensively even before one engages in the section of Refuge & Prostrations.

Thanks to the wisdom and considerable kindness of certain great masters, there are now at least 2 books that deal exclusively with these Four Reminders which I'd like to bring to your attention: This Precious Life by Khandro Rinpoche and The Four Foundations of Buddhist Practice by Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche. Note that the latter also includes meditation instructions by Drukpa Pema Karpo. Both texts are available in print and electronically, and can be purchased from their respective publishers at the following websites:

http://www.khandrorinpoche.org/jetsun-khandro-rinpoche/bibliography/this-precious-life/
http://www.namobuddhapub.com/Four_Foundations_of_Buddhist_Practice_p/nbp005ff.htm

Along with classic commentaries like Patrul Rinpoche's Words of My Perfect Teacher and the 1st Jamgön Kongtrul's Torch of Certainty, as well as their contemporary counterparts --- Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche's Not for Happiness and the soon-to-be-published Turning Confusion into Clarity by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche --- these books are sure to be invaluable resources and great additions to any practitioner's personal library.

From the blurb about Thrangu Rinpoche's text on the KTD bookstore website:
When Tibet became a Buddhist nation beginning in the eighth century A.D., the great practitioners and learned scholars who came from India were faced with the problem of how to convey the Buddhist teachings to a large population of traders and farmers who for the most part were illiterate. The great Indian scholar Atiśa brought the Four Foundations of Practice to Tibet in the eleventh century. These four foundations are identical to the "four thoughts that turn the mind towards dharma" that were taught by the great meditator Gampopa. He elaborated on these and these four thoughts have served to help thousands of students in Tibet to understand why they should begin dharma practice. Because these four thoughts are the basic reason for practicing dharma, they are said to be the four general foundations of Buddhist practice.

A description of Khandro Rinpoche's book from Shambhala Publications:
Using the traditional Tibetan Buddhist framework of the Four Reminders—the preciousness of human birth, the truth of impermanence, the reality of suffering, and the inescapability of karma—Khandro Rinpoche explains why and how we could all better use this short life to pursue a spiritual path and make the world a better place. The book includes contemplative exercises that encourage us to appreciate the tremendous potential of the human body and mind.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby pemachophel » Thu May 15, 2014 3:57 pm

In my own experience, really pickling oneself in the Four Thoughts is the key to successful practice of the Dharma. I don't think this can be overstressed.

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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby conebeckham » Thu May 15, 2014 4:21 pm

I also believe in the pickling method, for what it's worth. :smile:
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby supermaxv » Thu May 15, 2014 4:53 pm

Good stuff! Yeah, I will admit I glossed over the outer preliminaries early on in my attempts at ngondro.
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu May 15, 2014 5:05 pm

Pema & Cone, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That's one of the reasons I was so overjoyed when I discovered those 2 books... the Four Thoughts seem to be very under-emphasized in most Western Dharma centers for some reason, despite being the lifeblood of the teachings. I felt a bit like Lha Thothori Nyentsen finding texts that fell outta the sky --- except they're in English and fully readable!

:rolling:
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Challenge23 » Thu May 15, 2014 5:56 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote: the Four Thoughts seem to be very under-emphasized in most Western Dharma centers for some reason, despite being the lifeblood of the teachings.
:rolling:


:offtopic: That sounds like a very interesting topic for a separate thread. You mind if I do so(as it was your statement)? :focus:
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu May 15, 2014 7:18 pm

Mind if you do what? Start another thread? Have at it, by all means.

Does anyone here know of other texts, either classical or contemporary, that deal specifically with the Four Reminders? Any other treatises on Ngöndro? Feel free to mention transcripts of a certain lama's teachings --- Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche's Ngondro Commentary available thru Namse Bangdzo is particularly good if you need specifics on Karma Kagyu, now that I think about it...
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 16, 2014 1:48 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:Mind if you do what? Start another thread? Have at it, by all means.

Does anyone here know of other texts, either classical or contemporary, that deal specifically with the Four Reminders? Any other treatises on Ngöndro? Feel free to mention transcripts of a certain lama's teachings --- Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche's Ngondro Commentary available thru Namse Bangdzo is particularly good if you need specifics on Karma Kagyu, now that I think about it...


I am in the process of translating the Sakya Ngondro commentary. It has a very extensive section on the four common preliminaries.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby conebeckham » Fri May 16, 2014 2:04 am

Malcolm, I look forward to reading that.
Also, I can't recommend Dezhung Rinpoche's "The Three Levels of Spiritual Perception"--for a Sakya presentation of not only the four thoughts, but much of the basic sutra-level material that is so important to ground an individual in the path.
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Challenge23 » Fri May 16, 2014 1:03 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:Mind if you do what? Start another thread? Have at it, by all means.

Does anyone here know of other texts, either classical or contemporary, that deal specifically with the Four Reminders? Any other treatises on Ngöndro? Feel free to mention transcripts of a certain lama's teachings --- Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche's Ngondro Commentary available thru Namse Bangdzo is particularly good if you need specifics on Karma Kagyu, now that I think about it...



Quoting you in regards to the new thread. It was your question so I felt that it would be a little unethical if I just snatched it and ran with it.

Thanks much. :)
I'm an agnostic in the same sense that Robert Anton Wilson was, except his reaction was laughter. Mine isn't.

I am not a teacher in any tradition, Buddhist or otherwise. Anything that I have posted should not be taken as representing the view of anyone other than my own. And maybe Larry S. Smith of Montgomery, Alabama. But most likely just me.
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri May 16, 2014 1:38 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:Mind if you do what? Start another thread? Have at it, by all means.

Does anyone here know of other texts, either classical or contemporary, that deal specifically with the Four Reminders? Any other treatises on Ngöndro? Feel free to mention transcripts of a certain lama's teachings --- Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche's Ngondro Commentary available thru Namse Bangdzo is particularly good if you need specifics on Karma Kagyu, now that I think about it...




http://www.amazon.com/Torch-Lighting-Way-Freedom-Instructions/dp/159030909X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1400243370&sr=8-3&keywords=ngondro

and

http://vimalatreasures.org/great-perfection-buddha-in-the-palm-of-the-hand.aspx

also

http://www.amazon.com/Illuminating-Path-Instructions-According-Vajrayana/dp/0965933989/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400243731&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=khenpo+brothers+ngondro
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby T. Chokyi » Sat May 17, 2014 12:30 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:Mind if you do what? Start another thread? Have at it, by all means.

Does anyone here know of other texts, either classical or contemporary, that deal specifically with the Four Reminders? Any other treatises on Ngöndro? Feel free to mention transcripts of a certain lama's teachings --- Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche's Ngondro Commentary available thru Namse Bangdzo is particularly good if you need specifics on Karma Kagyu, now that I think about it...


Same Book store:
CD:
http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Ngondro_The_Foundational_Practices_Part_1_p/18085.htm

Also since you mention Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche, there is the series of Karma Chagmed's Mountain Dharma:

http://www.amazon.com/Karma-Chakmes-Mountain-Dharma-Vol/dp/0974109207/ref=sr_1_1s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400280049&sr=1-1&keywords=Karma+Chakme
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby smcj » Sat May 17, 2014 2:08 am

Does anyone here know of other texts, either classical or contemporary, that deal specifically with the Four Reminders? Any other treatises on Ngöndro?


"The Gem Ornament of Manifold Oral Instructions"
Kalu Rinpoche
KDK Publications c.1986

Chapter headings:
1. The Three Yanas
2. Ordinary Preliminary Practices
3. Ngondro: Refuge and Prostrations
4. Ngondro: Dorje Sempa Meditation
5. Ngondro: Mandala Practice
6. Ngondro: Guru Yoga Practice and Guru-Disciple Relationship
7. Lay Vows
8. The Bodhisattva Vow
9. Vajrayana Commitment and the Fourteen Rood Downfalls
10. Shamatha: Object Meditation
11. Shamatha: Objectless Meditation
12. Four Causes of Rebirth in Dewachen
13. Mahamudra
14. Concluding remarks


For a Karma or Shangpa Kagyu it really is a must-have.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Tue May 20, 2014 12:03 am

Thank you, T. Chokyi, in particular for those ngondro commentaries on the various Nyingma lineages. Same goes for you, Cone, as regards Deshung Rinpoche's book. I very much liked what he had to say in the intro to Torch of Certainty, so I look forward to reading The Three Levels at some point. And a big thanks to smjc, too. I was woefully unaware of Kalu Rinpoche's text, but have managed to find a copy now that you've brought it to my attention!

:reading:


In an apparently karmic twist of fate, HH Gyalwang Karmapa recently gave a teaching on the "Four Common Practices of Mahamudra" to a fortunate group of nuns in Tilokpur. Despite the technical difficulties they had with the microphones --- gotta love those gremlin maras! --- you can still make out all of the audio. I'll see if I can get permission from David Karma Choepel to publish a transcript of his translation somewhere on the web, and post it here for those who don't want to suffer through the feedback, ringing, and static. In the meantime:



The Four Common Practices of Mahamudra, also known as the Four Thoughts that Turn the Mind. The Karmapa noted that these teachings came from the great master Gampopa, who taught Mahamudra from the lineage of Marpa and Milarepa, but that the preliminaries came from the Kadampa of Atisha. The Four Thoughts that Turn the Mind are the appreciation of our precious human life, the realization of death and impermanence, the recognition of the defects of samsara, and the cause and effect of karma.

We must be thankful for the leisure and resources we have to practice the dharma and put our meditation practice and studies to use in our day-to-day lives. No matter how much practice or how many rituals we do, if we do not make an active attempt to change our mind-stream and consciously practice kindness and compassion, then our afflictions will not decrease. Some people do not look at their own faults and afflictions, but only the thoughts and afflictions of others. This develops pride and arrogance and shows that the dharma is being practiced incorrectly.

http://kagyuoffice.org/gyalwang-karmapa-visits-tilokpur-nunnery/
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Tue May 20, 2014 12:28 am

Here's a page on the KTD website entitled Turning the Mind Toward the Dharma which features links to a doha by the 16th Gyalwang Karmapa, a teaching by the late Lama Ganga, and both a teaching and Q&A session with Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche on the subject:

http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/buddhism/dha/dha00.php

The Buddha taught the Four Noble Truths that have to do with understanding that what we take to be real manifests as suffering, but that there is a path that we can follow that leads from this suffering to the experience of ultimate happiness.

Within the Tibetan tradition, four thoughts on reality help us to internalize our understanding of the Four Noble Truths. These Four Thoughts that turn the mind to Dharma also help us to overcome our habitual inertia, and provide the impetus and motivation for our Buddhist practice. The four thoughts that turn the mind to Dharma are taken as a profound contemplation leading us to a direct confrontation with our own personal reality: the preciousness of our human birth and the opportunity that it affords us to practice, the [transitory nature] of all phenomena including the very temporary and short-lived nature of our opportunity to practice, the importance of taking karma into account and recognizing that what we do with this opportunity does make an enormous difference; and the unsatisfactoriness of samsara and the appreciation that there is really no good or useful alternative to applying [ourselves] to the study and practice of the Dharma.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu May 22, 2014 7:35 pm

While Michael Erlewine and I don't always see eye-to-eye --- his video series on YouTube is incomprehensible to me, for instance --- as a senior student of one of my lamas I can respect his opinions.

Recently, Michael posted about ngöndro to his Facebook page, and while I think his characterization of the practice is somewhat remiss or incomplete at points, I think it covers a lot of good ground and is a decent working definition for those unfamiliar with it.

FIRE & BRIMSTONE DHARMA

I'm on my way out of town for a couple of days, so I may not be able to respond to any comments on this post. And I realize that what I am about to discuss will be a little scary to those of you who are considering learning meditation practice, and I only mention it because, sooner or later, you are going to come across these other practices and you might as well understand what they are all about. I am not by nature a fearmonger, but there is this.

One of the main reasons I left the Catholic church where I was raised is because of all the fire & brimstone teaching. I didn't like the idea of a god who was so punishing, not to mention the nuns who smacked my knuckles with a ruler, etc. As a confirmed naturalist at a young age, I could see all too well the harsh reality of nature, but at the same time I experienced its beauty as well. However the beauty of Christianity, perhaps because of how I was treated, was slowly lost on me. My interest just ran out.

So, while I found myself more comfortable with the Buddhist approach to life, I was also always on the lookout for that Old Testament fire & brimstone specter as well. And, although Buddhism is much more accepting and flexible than the Christianity I grew up in, it too has a no-nonsense component that gradually reared its head in my dharma practice. Let's talk about that for a moment. We all have heard of meditation practice, but there are other practices that you will discover also exist.

To me, the classic or archetypical example of what I am pointing at here is what is called ngöndro practice. When I first heard about ngöndro I wanted to run screaming at the very thought of it. It was scary beyond my imagination, even more so when I would seriously consider the thought of doing it myself.

For those who have never heard of ngöndro, it is a kind of dharma boot-camp, a set of five techniques that are so arduous that when I first heard about them, my thought was "No!, I am not doing this. Not ever."

And what I was reacting to are the following, what ngöndro consists of, which are 111,111 full-length physical prostrations on the floor, as in: hard physical exercise. And while you are prostrating, you also recite a prayer taking refuge in the Buddha, his dharma teachings, and those who can properly teach the dharma 111,111 times. This is then followed by 111,111 recitations of a hundred-syllable mantra, which is further followed by 111,111 very complex offerings of a mandala, placing little heaps of grain on a copper plate. And finally, 111,111 prayers requesting the blessing of your teacher and the Buddhas. That should slow us down, right?

What was not clear when I first heard about ngöndro is why it exists. It is not primarily intended to be a life-long practice, although some do it. It is not something you have to do or that everyone does. It is purely remedial, a simple remedy, but for what? It sounded like a trip to the woodshed when I first heard about it.

Ngöndro is a remedy for those of us who are too clogged up with distractions and obscurations to properly learn basic meditation, as in: we are getting nowhere with our meditating. It is exactly like looking through a pair of dirty glasses. We can't see much so, sooner or later, it is easier to first clean the glasses, before we try to look through them. Ngöndro is about cleaning our mental glasses, removing obscurations and distractions. It is a remedy for obscured inner vision and inflexibility. I was the perfect candidate.

In fact, in Tibet, dharma students often do ngöndro BEFORE they ever try to seriously meditate. Think about that please. Perhaps the only reason that here in the U.S. we first try to learn to meditate is because ngöndro is too difficult for Americans to contemplate. Yet we are very comfortable with various physical exercise programs. Well, ngöndro is essentially the same thing, but it is primarily a mind-exercising regime, as in: the mind is something we also have to get in shape and learn how to use.

Ngöndro is designed for the hard cases, of which I certainly was one. For years I tried and tried and tried to meditate, but I did not get very far. Why? Because my basic mental obscurations were just too thick and I was too easily distracted. Finally, it was suggested that I take a step back from meditation and prepare my mind through this series of exercises (the ngöndro), and THEN try to mediate. It is voluntary, something we can do to help make meditation easier. I finally agreed to do this because I could see I was getting about nowhere and I had real trust in my teacher.

Ngöndro was, as I feared, quite difficult for me, an ordeal of both patience and practice that took several years for me to complete. I worked at it pretty diligently, doing both a morning and an evening round of practice. And although my first take on it was that it was as medieval as all hell, I gradually came to understand that, like physical exercise loosens up our muscles, ngöndro shapes our inner mental approach into something more workable. In fact, looking back on it, ngöndro is a psychologically brilliant way to get in mental shape, which otherwise might take many lifetimes.

I am not going to go into detail about the different parts of ngöndro practice because that is best done with a teacher and spiritual guide, but they all make perfect sense. And now a funny little story of my own experience with ngöndro. Sometime after I had finished ngöndro I had an interview with my dharma teacher, the rinpoche with whom I have worked with for over thirty years now.

I always ask him each year if there is anything he feels I should be doing different with practice than I am. He usually says, "Nothing special. Just keep practicing." But this particular year, he asked me a question. "Do you want to know what I would do now if I were you?" Of course I did. And he responded: "I would do another ngöndro."

After the shock wore off, I did just that, and that second ngöndro made a huge difference. It took that much work to bring my mind around to being flexible enough to really being able to practice meditation properly. But then, I am a hard case, but since then I have learned to actually meditate some. True meditation is the most useful tool I have ever learned in this life that I have lived.

The difficulty of ngöndro practice is not what I am trying to convey here, rather that when we begin to realize the difficulties of our own mental situation, sometimes strong medicine is needed. Mind-training practice also has that available for us in the ngöndro.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby T. Chokyi » Tue May 27, 2014 1:02 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:Thank you, T. Chokyi, in particular for those ngondro commentaries on the various Nyingma lineages.


You're welcome Karma Jinpa. I saw you posted about Khenchen coming to your area. If you see him in an interview he can, of course start you on your Nam Cho Ngondro, but you already know that very well. From what I have read in your posts you have a feeling of connection to Karma Chagmed in particular. Nam Cho is neither "Nyingmapa" or "Kagyupa" etc...although it is heavily carried in those two lineages. The Nam Cho Shitro for example is very much diffused and practiced among many lineages. Drikungpas practice Migur Dorjes Shitro and CHNN gives many lungs from Nam Cho including that Zhitro, but you already know that Khenchen carries this profound lineage being the main practices in Palyul Nyingmapa are Nam Cho, so you know he can set you on that Ngondro. Now with that said, I have heard over the years that in the Karma Kagyu there is a newish Ngondro that HH Karmapa is going to present, I do believe this Ngondro he has formulated, and being I am not Karma Kagyu I suppose that Ngondro is coming up at this time, I'll have to watch the video, perhaps you will be doing that one. I know a few practitioners that have done two or three Ngondros, for example Sangye Khandro the fantastic Lotsawa, who has done Longchen Nyingtig and Dudjom Tersar, plus I think also of course Nam Cho, so that makes three, and Trolma, actually that makes four... :smile: :tongue:
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Karma Jinpa » Tue May 27, 2014 9:14 pm

If I weren't already headed to Nepal, I'd be overjoyed to see both my gurus in Florida. This way, at least by putting the word out others can benefit.

It's funny you mention the Namchö and how perople you know of are doing multiple ngöndros, or have already done them. I've received the transmission of several --- pretty much one each for the lineages I'm connected to --- and would love to fully practice all of them over the course of my life. The great Rimé masters like Jamgön Kongtrul Lodrö Thayé and Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo practiced ngöndro not just once, but several times in just that 1st incarnation, no less all that they've had since. And while I'm light years away from their diligence and realization, their examples have made quite an impact on me.

At this point, my Tsawa'i Lama told me to practice the Karma Kamtsang long sadhana, so that's what I'll be doing unless Gyalwang Karmapa gives me other instructions directly.

HH Karmapa will give instructions on the Short Ngondro he edited together (in 2006, IIRC) as his first teachings in Germany this Thurs, May 29, and I highly recommend those interested to attend in person or via webcast. I have the text itself, and Karmapa's commentary is excellent, especially how he explains the symbolism and inner meanings of the practice instead of leaving it on the page at the outer level.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Punya » Tue May 27, 2014 9:15 pm

Recently, Michael posted about ngöndro to his Facebook page, and while I think his characterization of the practice is somewhat remiss or incomplete at points, I think it covers a lot of good ground and is a decent working definition for those unfamiliar with it.


In what ways do you disagree with the characterisation Karma Jinpa?
Unless the inner forces of negative emotions are conquered
Strife with outer enemies will never end.
~Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
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Re: Beginning a Ngöndro

Postby Punya » Tue May 27, 2014 10:57 pm

Actually I don't mean in a critical way, just what else could be added to Michael's comments.
Unless the inner forces of negative emotions are conquered
Strife with outer enemies will never end.
~Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
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