Validity of recorded empowerments

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 02, 2014 2:45 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 3:13 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

untxi
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby untxi » Fri May 02, 2014 4:37 pm

I find this whole thread a little disturbing.

There are many very highly qualified masters, with genuine realization, who offer a variety of teachings across a wide range of topics (lam rim, dialectics, empowerments, tantric grounds & paths, kyerim and dzogrim instructions, pointing-out and pith instructions) in a wide range of contexts (one-one, informally through skillful means, in groups, in teaching retreats, in practice retreats)-- which happen to include modern technologies such as recording and webcasts.

I'm not sure why they offer these teachings as webcasts and various recordings. I'm not a highly qualified masters. I have no realizations, and as such I can't guess the intentions of these masters. I suppose there are corrupt lamas who do it to make money. I suppose there are other lamas who do it at the insistence of their sanghas for marketing. But I presume that most of these lamas do this out of compassion for their disciples.

What disturbs me about this thread is that this is now essentially criticizing the realization, motivation, ethics, etc., of very highly realized lamas, some of them mentioned by name. The "why" of that is simply because they have offered teachings, based on their own wisdom, through a webcast or a recording.

What also disturbs me is that there are people with real needs and interest who benefit from the webcasts. Now this potentially destroys their faith in their teacher-through-recording-medium, and undermines their confidence in what practice they are trying to engage in despite whatever challenges preclude travelling to see their teacher.

I'm not sure what's gained here. If you don't want to take empowerments or teachings by webcast then don't. If you do, then do.

pensum
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:12 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby pensum » Fri May 02, 2014 4:42 pm

Last edited by pensum on Fri May 02, 2014 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 5393
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri May 02, 2014 4:52 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

supermaxv
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:46 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby supermaxv » Fri May 02, 2014 4:54 pm

I have no stake / comment in the validity of recorded / online empowerments (other than I would echo Malcolm and strongly recommend read up on it on the various openly available books on the subject), but if an argument on this message board is all it takes for a disciple to have his or her faith destroyed, I would wonder if that person has properly examined the guru before receiving empowerment, has correct motivation (or at least an inkling of what that means), and/or most importantly practices guru yoga.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 4:59 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Lhasa
Posts: 871
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:51 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Lhasa » Fri May 02, 2014 6:07 pm


User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 02, 2014 6:09 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

untxi
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby untxi » Fri May 02, 2014 6:11 pm


User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 02, 2014 6:15 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

T. Chokyi
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri May 02, 2014 6:19 pm


User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 6:39 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 02, 2014 6:48 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 6:51 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Grigoris » Fri May 02, 2014 6:58 pm

So how can one verify if the siddhi that arose, even in the case of a proper empowerment, are not just based on the exhaustion of merit? There are Siddhas in non-Buddhist tantric traditions too, do they receive correct empowerment or are their siddhi based exclusively on the exhaustion of merit?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 7:12 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 7:14 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Palzang Jangchub
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Palzang Jangchub » Fri May 02, 2014 7:44 pm

Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme


User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Postby Malcolm » Fri May 02, 2014 7:46 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa


Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tenma and 27 guests