Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby Adi » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:36 pm

Malcolm wrote:...
I have wavered on this over the years, as I have in so many other things, but my present thinking is that all Vajrayāna practitioners of whatever stripe need a solid grounding in Hinayāna and Mahāyāna paths.


I think this a very sound thought. I recall Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche talking about too many Vajrayāna practitioners sitting around reading shastras but rarely any sutras and that this was not a good thing.

A good result of a thorough grounding for practitioners would perhaps be a better ability to make decisions about a lama or teacher and whether or not they were upholding a family lineage, were a true tulku, or whether they had the merit to be a teacher. To use a metaphor, if you want to go hear someone teach you about quantum physics it might be a good idea to first know whether or not they know the principles of a lever or even how to use one.

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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby Sherlock » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:43 pm

Tibetan monastic curricula are based more on shastras than sutras. Sutrayana study is based mainly on shastras. I think his point was that more tantric works are read than the sastras.

Another model for meritocracy is the Shingon model. How many yeara do Shingon lineage holders take to train?
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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:20 am

ConradTree wrote:2. Tulku systems have specialization:


But this is not true for all tulkus is it? For example Tulku Urygen in "Blazing Splendor" mentioned that he had neglected to practice his family Kagyu lineage.

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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby theanarchist » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:54 am

smcj wrote:But I think that it is more than just information that is needed to have a proper foundation. I am of the belief that a certain sensitivity to the basics of spirituality are necessary, such as Refuge, renunciation and such. Oddly I find that kind of sensitivity in people that have successfully mastered 12 step programs..


People who do the 12 step program often do it knowing if they don't they are going to die/ruin their lives. There is a strong motivation to get a handle on their personal samsara, something that is not neccessarily always present in western buddhist converts.
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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby ConradTree » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:10 am

kirtu wrote:
ConradTree wrote:2. Tulku systems have specialization:


But this is not true for all tulkus is it? For example Tulku Urygen in "Blazing Splendor" mentioned that he had neglected to practice his family Kagyu lineage.

Kirt


Um, yes that's what I'm saying.

For example, Dzongsar Khyentse specializes in Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo's teachings, although his family's teaching is Dudjom, since his grandfather is Dujom Rinpoche.
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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby Adi » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:51 pm

Sherlock wrote:Tibetan monastic curricula are based more on shastras than sutras. Sutrayana study is based mainly on shastras. I think his point was that more tantric works are read than the sastras….


When I heard him speak on this subject it was specifically about lay practitioners and related habits. I've no doubt he's made similar points to different audiences, commenting on people reading too many commentaries of any kind rather than the source material.

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Re: Family lineages vs tulku system vs "meritocracy"

Postby pensum » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:16 pm

Some sound advice in regard to tulkus and finding a teacher by the recently deceased Shamar Rinpoche:
http://www.tricycle.com/interview/tulku-inc-perils-picking-teacher
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