Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

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Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby Terma » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:19 am

Hi there,

can anyone point me towards a/any texts, commentaries, books, pdf's, etc. that help one's understanding of emptiness as it relates to Vajrayana practice specifically?

I have studied some Madhyamika (Chandrakirti, a little Nagarjuna, and so-forth), but I was hoping for something a little more geared towards the Vajrayana practitioner. I study in a terma tradition, if this helps any.

Thanks! :)

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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby heart » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:25 am

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby smcj » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:36 am

heart wrote:I am reading this right now:

http://www.shambhala.com/authors/g-n/se ... ality.html

/magnus

If you scroll down the page it says that the book should be read by people that have finished ngondro. :tantrum:

There's gotta be something else to help this guy out. Maybe post in the Nyingma forum?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby Konchog1 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:39 am

The view isn't different in Tantra and the Sutra meditations on emptiness carry over for the most part.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby heart » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:36 am

smcj wrote:
heart wrote:I am reading this right now:

http://www.shambhala.com/authors/g-n/se ... ality.html

/magnus

If you scroll down the page it says that the book should be read by people that have finished ngondro. :tantrum:



Yes that is true, I finished many years ago.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby Tsongkhapafan » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:12 am

Thers no difference in the object emptiness between sutra and Tantra, the difference is in the level of mind that is experiencing it.
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:14 am

i read yesterday in the book, confusion dawns as wisdom. there was a story when atisha was going to tibet and he asked the translator what sutras and scriptures he had studied. the translator gave a profound list and atisha was wondering why would the tibetans need him if the translator is so learned. then atisha asked that how does he apply the teachings. and the translator said that he applies each sutras teaching how it is instructed in that particular scripture and applies that method to all the scriptures. Atisha then realized the tibetans need him because he knew that all the scriptures are interconnected that they compliment each other. my writing of this is a bit of a rape but still.

its not that shunyata is somehow different in vajrayana. all you need is the correct view, and that helps. then qualify to practice vajrayana. you dont know it perfectly but some experience and intellectual understanding so youre not totally in the blue when it comes to knowing what is emptiness.

like konchog said its not different in sutras and tantras.

of course if you want to know how it applies to tantric practices like generation stage or so i cant answer that question but i think you would find some help in '' deity , mantra and wisdom '' book.

but really, emptiness in tantra and sutra is the same, and when you understand emptiness you understand both sutra and tantra better.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby Terma » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:51 am

smcj wrote:
heart wrote:I am reading this right now:

http://www.shambhala.com/authors/g-n/se ... ality.html

/magnus

If you scroll down the page it says that the book should be read by people that have finished ngondro. :tantrum:

There's gotta be something else to help this guy out. Maybe post in the Nyingma forum?


Fair enough...I am practicing ngondro, but it will be a while before I finish :tongue:

Thanks for the suggestion though, heart.
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby tingdzin » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:50 am

Vajrayana is about practice, or should be. If you have a basic grounding in Sutra teachings about sunyata, that's enough. If you try to practice Vajrayana worrying about what the difference might be between Mantra and Sutra sunyata, you'll get nowhere. Just follow your teacher's instructions about how to do the ngondro and really try to understand the meanings, and that will lay the groundwork, and possibly even more.
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Re: Shunyata in relation to Vajrayana

Postby theanarchist » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:28 am

Terma wrote:
can anyone point me towards a/any texts, commentaries, books, pdf's, etc. that help one's understanding of emptiness as it relates to Vajrayana practice specifically?

I have studied some Madhyamika (Chandrakirti, a little Nagarjuna, and so-forth), but I was hoping for something a little more geared towards the Vajrayana practitioner. I study in a terma tradition, if this helps any.



The difference is, emptiness nature in a book is a fancy concept.

The experience of emptiness nature and the means how to get there are a different pair of boots. It's like a map and guidbook of South Africa and actually being there or taking the plane.

You might have a look at the heart sutra and acquaint yourself a little with the basic principles of vajrayana and how it works. Because that explains your question. I also suggest you consult your teacher on the matter. But no intellectual explanation will ever be able to replace a personal experience. Once you had that, even a little glimpse of it, then you can understand how all those teachings all make perfect sense.
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